I would coach it in these terms: Check Partial, Super Check Partial, and
Call History provide you a "guess" as to what the correct data is. Its not
a definitive answer and SCP can and sometimes is wrong. But a callsign
database is an outside source that is the definitive database on what is
(or should be) correct.
Besides, as Drew correctly points out, QRZ.com, Buckmaster, FCC ULS, are
basically external sources which are explicitly called out as being
forbidden by most contests' rules.
73 Rich NN3W
On Sun, Jun 4, 2023 at 12:49 PM Drew Vonada-Smith <drew@whisperingwoods.org>
wrote:
> Contesters,
>
> I think using QRZ to look up QSO exchange details is pretty clearly out of
> bounds for many if not most contests. Paul is "the guy" and his reference
> is clear:
>
> PROH.3. Confirmation of any contacts during or after the contest by use of
> any non-amateur radio means such as telephone, text messaging, websites,
> email, or social media.
>
> For those saying this this is no different than call history files, you
> are at least partially correct - I get it. However, we as individuals
> don't set the rules, the sponsor does. If you want this practice to OK by
> the rules, petition for it. I am very much against it.
>
> I for one think the contest is supposed to be on the air, and one is
> supposed to copy the exchange. I'd like CHF files (and spot exchange data
> for that matter) not to exist, but I can't control that. If you use
> crutches, you simply are the poorer for it.
>
> The fact that something can be done or already exists does not make it a
> good idea. Let's be actual operators and not radio-linked video game
> players.
>
> 73,
> Drew K3PA
>
> ________________________________
> From: CQ-Contest <cq-contest-bounces+drew=
> whisperingwoods.org@contesting.com> on behalf of
> cq-contest-request@contesting.com <cq-contest-request@contesting.com>
> Sent: Sunday, June 4, 2023 11:00
> To: cq-contest@contesting.com <cq-contest@contesting.com>
> Subject: CQ-Contest Digest, Vol 246, Issue 3
>
> Send CQ-Contest mailing list submissions to
> cq-contest@contesting.com
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of CQ-Contest digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Looking up on QRZ.com (Pete Smith N4ZR)
> 2. Re: Looking up on QRZ.com (George Fremin III)
> 3. Re: punch qrz lookup button during a contest...? (Paul Bourque)
> 4. Re: Looking up on QRZ.com (Richard DiDonna)
> 5. Re: Looking up on QRZ.com (Ron Notarius W3WN)
> 6. Re: Looking up on QRZ.com (rjairam@gmail.com)
> 7. Re: Looking up on QRZ.com (David Gilbert)
> 8. Re: Looking up on QRZ.com (David Gilbert)
> 9. Re: Looking up on QRZ.com (Hans Brakob)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2023 08:50:23 -0400
> From: Pete Smith N4ZR <pete.n4zr@gmail.com>
> To: cq-contest@contesting.com
> Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Looking up on QRZ.com
> Message-ID: <62f5b37a-6deb-afd9-7e7a-df74beaa056f@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
>
> But then,? why are call history files or super check partial files not
> illegal?? For that matter, cluster-derived spot information (even if
> only the callsign) isn't derived from on-the-air activity by the
> recipient. Seems to me like this is a bridge long crossed.
>
> 73, Pete N4ZR
>
> On 6/3/2023 5:29 AM, Stanley Zawrotny wrote:
> > Looking up a callsign on QRZ can be considered assisted if the contest
> uses any of the information provided as part of an exchange; name or state
> are the most common, counties are used in state QSO parties.
> >
> > Stan, K4SBZ
> >
> > "Real radio bounces off the sky."
> >
> >> On Jun 3, 2023, at 1:57 AM, Doug Bates<kv4zy.1@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> ?Art,
> >> I don't claim to know all, but it strikes me as strange that a callsign
> >> lookup on any database could be against any rules. The nearest thing I
> can
> >> think of that may be anywhere near related in the rules of some
> contests is
> >> forbidding "Assisted" where contesters follow a cluster to find contacts
> >> that are currently reported as being on. Callsign lookup does not seem
> to
> >> me to be anywhere close to using a cluster to find contacts. But what
> do I
> >> know:)
> >> 73 & God Bless
> >> De KV4ZY
> >>
> >>> On Fri, Jun 2, 2023 at 9:24?PM Art Boyars<artboyars@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> On the N1MM reflector somebody asked about how to use the "QRZ" button
> >>> during the contest for calls that don't appear in the "check" window.
> I
> >>> guess he was talking about the SCP or CHF data files loaded into N1MM.
> >>>
> >>> A few people commented that looking it up on QRZ.com (or some other
> online
> >>> database??) during the contest was against the rules.
> >>>
> >>> I don't see any difference between using an online databas and using
> SCP
> >>> and CHF (except that SCP/CHF is faster).
> >>>
> >>> What do you wise people think?
> >>>
> >>> 73, art K3KU
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> CQ-Contest mailing list
> >>> CQ-Contest@contesting.com
> >>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
> >>>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> CQ-Contest mailing list
> >> CQ-Contest@contesting.com
> >> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
> > _______________________________________________
> > CQ-Contest mailing list
> > CQ-Contest@contesting.com
> > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2023 08:47:22 -0500
> From: George Fremin III <geoiii@kkn.net>
> To: Raymond Benny <rayn6vr@gmail.com>
> Cc: Doug Bates <kv4zy.1@gmail.com>, Art Boyars <artboyars@gmail.com>,
> CQ-Contest Reflector <cq-contest@contesting.com>
> Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Looking up on QRZ.com
> Message-ID: <E1DD0440-EEA2-412B-B608-D2246376F818@kkn.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> I think that using QRZ as a source to attempt to correct or confirm
> information being received during a contest to be way beyond what you
> should be doing. And while some of that might not be against the rules in
> a contest (written) I would suggest that it goes against the sprit of the
> contest.
>
> And saying it is ok for assisted or multiop categories is incorrect. Esp
> the part about fixing calls or log data after the contact by using outside
> sources and I would consider those sources to include you using a callbook
> or database to look up this info in your shack (ie. Not limited to online
> sources).
>
> This sort of practice extends to ?log washing? post contest - using data
> sources or software to find and correct errors you made in the contest.
> This is just wrong and you should not be doing it. One of the goals you
> should have in a contest is to operate in a way that you make as few errors
> as possible. If you are unsure, ask the other person during your on the
> air contacts and make your corrections based on that on the air
> interaction. Contests are you test your skill at being a radio operator.
> Not your skills in post contest log fixing or data mining or whatever.
>
> We all make mistakes. I often make more than many of my peers. But so be
> it - looking at my log checking reports can be painful to my ego. But, you
> can use those reports to see what sort of errors you are making and when
> you are making them - and then you can learn from that and work on doing
> better next time.
>
> I do see that many are saying that they really see no difference between
> some source like QRZ and the SCP databases. And I will have to agree. I
> have never liked the SCP database use. I have felt that it is wrong.
> Until a few years ago, I never used it. I did contests and did well in
> contests without using any sort of callsign database. But I gave in a few
> years ago - as it was clear that it was a loosing battle on my part. And
> once I started using it I was more convinced than ever that it provides an
> advantage. One of the many skills you can learn is callsign recognition -
> and the callsign databases dilute that skill.
>
> As far as other information from some of these databases - that can be
> very problematic and might hurt your score more than it helps it. Over the
> years there have been various groups / clubs that have really pushed for
> the use of these databases that contain more than call signs. For example
> in the ARRL Sweepstakes contest some folks are using databases that contain
> callsign and check and section information that pre-fills the exchange
> field during the contact. We can see folks that use these in the log
> checking after the contest by some errors they make that can only be
> explained by the use of databases. I can see this from my on my own on
> the air activity when folks challenge what I send them as an exchange. I
> have even had operators argue with me during the contact that their
> ?database? has something other than what I am saying so I must be wrong.
> I also see it when I get a QSL card.
>
> Examples:
>
> For years in the SS contests - N5RZ would come do CW from my station - he
> used his check.
> I would do SSB and use my check. In both contests folks would put my
> check in for his contacts and his check for mine. My check is 76 and I
> think RZ is 67 or 69. It was very obvious from our log checking reports
> whom was using databases and not doing a good job of copying what they hear
> on the air.
>
> My ?callbook? (mailing address) is in Austin, TX / Travis County / EM10
> etc.
> My operating location is Johnson City, TX / Blanoc County / EM00.
>
> VHF contest LCRs have lots of folks putting EM10 for my grid - and losing
> those contacts / mults
> I get cards from folks thanking me for a new grid / county etc. - that is
> not were I was operating from.
>
> I usually have several folks argue with me about my check in SS.
>
> In the NAQP I usually use ED as my name. (Long story) In the last NAQP I
> did I had a guy keep saying that QRZ says my name is George. I kept
> telling him my name is ED - this went on for several minutes.
> Whatever.
>
> My advice is do the contest on the air.
>
> Do not use databases or callbacks or the extension of that - post contest
> log correcting.
>
> You will be a better op, you will learn to listen to the radio and not to
> data on your screen.
>
>
>
> > On Jun 2, 2023, at 10:51 PM, Raymond Benny <rayn6vr@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Your log is supplied to reflect what you copied in real time!
> > In most contests, using outside sources to correct a log is illegal.
> >
> > Ray,
> > N6VR/W7YA
> >
> >
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I don't see any difference between using an online databas and using
> SCP
> >>> and CHF (except that SCP/CHF is faster).
> >>>
> >>> What do you wise people think?
> >>>
> >>> 73, art K3KU
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> CQ-Contest mailing list
> >>> CQ-Contest@contesting.com
> >>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
> >>>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> CQ-Contest mailing list
> >> CQ-Contest@contesting.com
> >> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > CQ-Contest mailing list
> > CQ-Contest@contesting.com
> > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2023 12:30:20 -0400
> From: Paul Bourque <pbourque@gmail.com>
> To: Mike Smith VE9AA <ve9aa@nbnet.nb.ca>
> Cc: cq-contest@contesting.com
> Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] punch qrz lookup button during a contest...?
> Message-ID:
> <CAOsOLJ+cbQ3Bvk0PDQYw7=
> 3SLDBRdtkyXkN-HLJSSExuo5vtYA@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> Good afternoon,
>
> I'd say that looking up a call to verify that you copied it correctly, or
> looking it up because you were missing part of the exchange (if it was say,
> a state, or ARRL section) is not allowed under ARRL Contest Rules. Copying
> the call and exchange correctly over the air is part of the contest.
>
> PROH.3. Confirmation of any contacts during or after the contest by use of
> any non-amateur radio means such as telephone, text messaging, websites,
> email, or social media.
>
> 73,
> Paul Bourque, N1SFE, ARRL Contest Program Manager
> (please reply to N1SFE@ARRL.ORG)
>
> On Fri, Jun 2, 2023 at 9:24?PM Mike Smith VE9AA <ve9aa@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote:
>
> > (moved from n1mm logger groups.io page)
> >
> >
> >
> > Do you feel it's perfectly OK to use the QRZ lookup button in N1MMLogger+
> > (and likely other loggers) to provide fills during a contest, say if you
> > missed the exchange during the QSO?
> >
> >
> >
> > What about after the contest, before your log is sent in?
> >
> >
> >
> > I am talking about most of the major/mainstream contests. CQWW, CQWPX,
> ARRL
> > DX, NAQP, ARRL SS (you get the idea)
> >
> >
> >
> > Assisted or non assisted.
> >
> >
> >
> > I'll reserve my comments for later in the thread so as not to possibly
> sway
> > comments one way or another.
> >
> >
> >
> > Discuss.
> >
> >
> >
> > 73
> >
> >
> >
> > Mike VE9AA
> >
> >
> >
> > Mike, Coreen & Corey
> >
> > Keswick Ridge, NB
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > CQ-Contest mailing list
> > CQ-Contest@contesting.com
> > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2023 12:35:25 -0400
> From: Richard DiDonna <richnn3w@gmail.com>
> To: Pete Smith N4ZR <pete.n4zr@gmail.com>
> Cc: cq-contest@contesting.com
> Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Looking up on QRZ.com
> Message-ID: <349FD996-0173-4F63-950F-E40D241A8F7E@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> Well how far ?up? or back do we want to take this. How about N1MM or
> Wintest that prefill 25 when you work a JA in the exchange field. Or how
> about a prefill in NAQP that fills in Tom MD when you work K3AJ.
>
> You could argue that they?re all guesses - which could be wrong.
>
> QRZ data or ULS data is presumed to be correct.
>
> I think looking up callsign data from the licensing authority during or
> after the contest is a bridge too far.
>
> 73 Rich NN3W
>
> > On Jun 3, 2023, at 12:26 PM, Pete Smith N4ZR <pete.n4zr@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > ?But then, why are call history files or super check partial files not
> illegal? For that matter, cluster-derived spot information (even if only
> the callsign) isn't derived from on-the-air activity by the recipient.
> Seems to me like this is a bridge long crossed.
> >
> > 73, Pete N4ZR
> >
> >> On 6/3/2023 5:29 AM, Stanley Zawrotny wrote:
> >> Looking up a callsign on QRZ can be considered assisted if the contest
> uses any of the information provided as part of an exchange; name or state
> are the most common, counties are used in state QSO parties.
> >>
> >> Stan, K4SBZ
> >>
> >> "Real radio bounces off the sky."
> >>
> >>>> On Jun 3, 2023, at 1:57 AM, Doug Bates<kv4zy.1@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> ?Art,
> >>> I don't claim to know all, but it strikes me as strange that a callsign
> >>> lookup on any database could be against any rules. The nearest thing I
> can
> >>> think of that may be anywhere near related in the rules of some
> contests is
> >>> forbidding "Assisted" where contesters follow a cluster to find
> contacts
> >>> that are currently reported as being on. Callsign lookup does not seem
> to
> >>> me to be anywhere close to using a cluster to find contacts. But what
> do I
> >>> know:)
> >>> 73 & God Bless
> >>> De KV4ZY
> >>>
> >>>> On Fri, Jun 2, 2023 at 9:24?PM Art Boyars<artboyars@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> On the N1MM reflector somebody asked about how to use the "QRZ" button
> >>>> during the contest for calls that don't appear in the "check"
> window. I
> >>>> guess he was talking about the SCP or CHF data files loaded into N1MM.
> >>>>
> >>>> A few people commented that looking it up on QRZ.com (or some other
> online
> >>>> database??) during the contest was against the rules.
> >>>>
> >>>> I don't see any difference between using an online databas and using
> SCP
> >>>> and CHF (except that SCP/CHF is faster).
> >>>>
> >>>> What do you wise people think?
> >>>>
> >>>> 73, art K3KU
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> CQ-Contest mailing list
> >>>> CQ-Contest@contesting.com
> >>>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
> >>>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> CQ-Contest mailing list
> >>> CQ-Contest@contesting.com
> >>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> CQ-Contest mailing list
> >> CQ-Contest@contesting.com
> >> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
> > _______________________________________________
> > CQ-Contest mailing list
> > CQ-Contest@contesting.com
> > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2023 12:58:54 -0400
> From: Ron Notarius W3WN <wn3vaw@verizon.net>
> To: Pete Smith N4ZR <pete.n4zr@gmail.com>
> Cc: cq-contest@contesting.com
> Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Looking up on QRZ.com
> Message-ID: <2B210D65-7011-404A-9B1A-4B3C9BBC9472@verizon.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> It comes down to ethical operating behavior, Pete.
>
> And as you and I both know, from many, many years on this reflector, there
> is a severe disagreement amongst many vocal participants about what is and
> is not ethical.
>
> (and I say ?ethical? simply because something is ?legal? or permitted
> under the rules doesn?t mean it?s right. A discussion for another time)
>
> So, for example, I may choose to not use SCP. That doesn?t mean I?m right
> - or wrong. Whether or not you choose to do so is up to you. If you?re
> comfortable with it, and do not believe your use is against the rules, who
> am I to say otherwise? Even if I?m not comfortable with it, for me.
>
> 73, Ron W3WN
>
> > On Jun 3, 2023, at 8:50 AM, Pete Smith N4ZR <pete.n4zr@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > But then, why are call history files or super check partial files not
> illegal? For that matter, cluster-derived spot information (even if only
> the callsign) isn't derived from on-the-air activity by the recipient.
> Seems to me like this is a bridge long crossed.
> >
> > 73, Pete N4ZR
> >
> >> On 6/3/2023 5:29 AM, Stanley Zawrotny wrote:
> >> Looking up a callsign on QRZ can be considered assisted if the contest
> uses any of the information provided as part of an exchange; name or state
> are the most common, counties are used in state QSO parties.
> >>
> >> Stan, K4SBZ
> >>
> >> "Real radio bounces off the sky."
> >>
> >>> On Jun 3, 2023, at 1:57 AM, Doug Bates<kv4zy.1@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> ?Art,
> >>> I don't claim to know all, but it strikes me as strange that a callsign
> >>> lookup on any database could be against any rules. The nearest thing I
> can
> >>> think of that may be anywhere near related in the rules of some
> contests is
> >>> forbidding "Assisted" where contesters follow a cluster to find
> contacts
> >>> that are currently reported as being on. Callsign lookup does not seem
> to
> >>> me to be anywhere close to using a cluster to find contacts. But what
> do I
> >>> know:)
> >>> 73 & God Bless
> >>> De KV4ZY
> >>>
> >>>> On Fri, Jun 2, 2023 at 9:24?PM Art Boyars<artboyars@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> On the N1MM reflector somebody asked about how to use the "QRZ" button
> >>>> during the contest for calls that don't appear in the "check"
> window. I
> >>>> guess he was talking about the SCP or CHF data files loaded into N1MM.
> >>>>
> >>>> A few people commented that looking it up on QRZ.com (or some other
> online
> >>>> database??) during the contest was against the rules.
> >>>>
> >>>> I don't see any difference between using an online databas and using
> SCP
> >>>> and CHF (except that SCP/CHF is faster).
> >>>>
> >>>> What do you wise people think?
> >>>>
> >>>> 73, art K3KU
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> CQ-Contest mailing list
> >>>> CQ-Contest@contesting.com
> >>>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
> >>>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> CQ-Contest mailing list
> >>> CQ-Contest@contesting.com
> >>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> CQ-Contest mailing list
> >> CQ-Contest@contesting.com
> >> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
> > _______________________________________________
> > CQ-Contest mailing list
> > CQ-Contest@contesting.com
> > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2023 13:07:27 -0400
> From: "rjairam@gmail.com" <rjairam@gmail.com>
> To: Art Boyars <artboyars@gmail.com>
> Cc: CQ-Contest Reflector <cq-contest@contesting.com>
> Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Looking up on QRZ.com
> Message-ID:
> <
> CAMCyBs5wup2OMq2uZYEKvYZMZmm7v3WiHWJD7E8t8LJ1SgSHSQ@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> SCP only helps with the callsign. While purists would rather not have even
> that, it?s a far cry from getting someone?s zone, grid square, state etc
> from a callsign database.
>
> Ria
> N2RJ
>
> On Fri, Jun 2, 2023 at 9:24 PM Art Boyars <artboyars@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On the N1MM reflector somebody asked about how to use the "QRZ" button
> > during the contest for calls that don't appear in the "check" window. I
> > guess he was talking about the SCP or CHF data files loaded into N1MM.
> >
> > A few people commented that looking it up on QRZ.com (or some other
> online
> > database??) during the contest was against the rules.
> >
> > I don't see any difference between using an online databas and using SCP
> > and CHF (except that SCP/CHF is faster).
> >
> > What do you wise people think?
> >
> > 73, art K3KU
> > _______________________________________________
> > CQ-Contest mailing list
> > CQ-Contest@contesting.com
> > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2023 10:20:50 -0700
> From: David Gilbert <ab7echo@gmail.com>
> To: cq-contest@contesting.com
> Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Looking up on QRZ.com
> Message-ID: <68f02c47-d6bc-81c2-9ac7-d0a8677c136c@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
>
>
> Yet people share compiled "Call History" files that are unique to a
> particular contest and provide all of the exchange information for that
> contest.? They aren't 100% reliable since people change names or
> locations, but if you got the callsign correct? ... or even pretty close
> ... you have a very good chance of being provided the exchange
> information without having to copy it.? In fact without EVER having
> previously copying it in a previous contest as long as somebody who
> contributed their log to the compiled file did.? In my opinion, that's
> an "external source".
>
> That's why I have never used a Call History file myself.? Just to prove
> what was possible, though, I once downloaded the entire U.S. and
> Canadian ham radio license databases and cross referenced them with the
> downloadable logs of various big gun stations from various contests.? I
> loaded all the information into a large spreadsheet, moved some stuff
> around to get the right sequence for the data fields, and then exported
> it all to create a very large "Call History" file that included every
> ham in the U.S. and Canada.? It loaded into N1MM just fine.? It probably
> was only 95% accurate for location and maybe 80% accurate for names
> since people using nicknames in contests, but in my opinion using it (I
> didn't) would have been an effective cheat for certain contests.
>
> 73,
> Dave? AB7E
>
>
>
> On 6/2/2023 8:51 PM, Raymond Benny wrote:
> > Your log is supplied to reflect what you copied in real time!
> > In most contests, using outside sources to correct a log is illegal.
> >
> > Ray,
> > N6VR/W7YA
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Jun 2, 2023, 6:57 PM Doug Bates <kv4zy.1@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Art,
> >> I don't claim to know all, but it strikes me as strange that a callsign
> >> lookup on any database could be against any rules. The nearest thing I
> can
> >> think of that may be anywhere near related in the rules of some
> contests is
> >> forbidding "Assisted" where contesters follow a cluster to find contacts
> >> that are currently reported as being on. Callsign lookup does not seem
> to
> >> me to be anywhere close to using a cluster to find contacts. But what
> do I
> >> know:)
> >> 73 & God Bless
> >> De KV4ZY
> >>
> >> On Fri, Jun 2, 2023 at 9:24?PM Art Boyars <artboyars@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On the N1MM reflector somebody asked about how to use the "QRZ" button
> >>> during the contest for calls that don't appear in the "check" window.
> I
> >>> guess he was talking about the SCP or CHF data files loaded into N1MM.
> >>>
> >>> A few people commented that looking it up on QRZ.com (or some other
> >> online
> >>> database??) during the contest was against the rules.
> >>>
> >>> I don't see any difference between using an online databas and using
> SCP
> >>> and CHF (except that SCP/CHF is faster).
> >>>
> >>> What do you wise people think?
> >>>
> >>> 73, art K3KU
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> CQ-Contest mailing list
> >>> CQ-Contest@contesting.com
> >>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
> >>>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> CQ-Contest mailing list
> >> CQ-Contest@contesting.com
> >> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > CQ-Contest mailing list
> > CQ-Contest@contesting.com
> > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2023 10:58:07 -0700
> From: David Gilbert <ab7echo@gmail.com>
> To: cq-contest@contesting.com
> Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Looking up on QRZ.com
> Message-ID: <d6f65f77-10c4-514e-fed3-cf51b7b520a9@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
>
>
> A call history file comprised of the combination of the prior logs of
> many other contesters (which is readily available and used by many) is
> exactly that, though.? Lots of folks excuse it by saying that it isn't
> 100% reliable and that you still have to be able to verify the info ...
> but if it didn't provide actual help people wouldn't use it, and just
> because an attempt to cheat isn't 100% successful it doesn't mean it
> wasn't an attempt to cheat.
>
> Now before anyone gets all bent out of shape by my terminology, I will
> have to say that every contest sponsor clearly knows that call history
> files are being used and to my knowledge none (at least of the majors)
> have ever come out against it.? That makes them tacitly approved in
> spite of the wording of their rules, and is therefore not actually
> cheating.
>
> But I still don't like it and I still don't use one ... not even one
> comprised strictly of my own prior logs.
>
> 73,
> Dave?? AB7E
>
>
> On 6/3/2023 10:07 AM, rjairam@gmail.com wrote:
> > SCP only helps with the callsign. While purists would rather not have
> even
> > that, it?s a far cry from getting someone?s zone, grid square, state etc
> > from a callsign database.
> >
> > Ria
> > N2RJ
> >
> > On Fri, Jun 2, 2023 at 9:24 PM Art Boyars <artboyars@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On the N1MM reflector somebody asked about how to use the "QRZ" button
> >> during the contest for calls that don't appear in the "check" window. I
> >> guess he was talking about the SCP or CHF data files loaded into N1MM.
> >>
> >> A few people commented that looking it up on QRZ.com (or some other
> online
> >> database??) during the contest was against the rules.
> >>
> >> I don't see any difference between using an online databas and using SCP
> >> and CHF (except that SCP/CHF is faster).
> >>
> >> What do you wise people think?
> >>
> >> 73, art K3KU
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> CQ-Contest mailing list
> >> CQ-Contest@contesting.com
> >> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > CQ-Contest mailing list
> > CQ-Contest@contesting.com
> > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2023 18:33:30 +0000
> From: Hans Brakob <kzerohb@gmail.com>
> To: Richard DiDonna <richnn3w@gmail.com>, Pete Smith N4ZR
> <pete.n4zr@gmail.com>
> Cc: "cq-contest@contesting.com" <cq-contest@contesting.com>
> Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Looking up on QRZ.com
> Message-ID:
> <
> MN2PR04MB6688EDCECD0CE8F18501537CF14FA@MN2PR04MB6688.namprd04.prod.outlook.com
> >
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Let?s take it back to ground zero. No pre-fills at all, not even zones.
>
> One of the laziest of all contests is CQWWCW. I suspect that a fellow
> could run up a pretty decent score in that test in silent mode (don?t copy
> anything). Just click the spots and accept the prefills from N1MM.
>
> 73, de Hans, K?HB
> ?Just a Boy and his Radio??
> ________________________________
> From: CQ-Contest <cq-contest-bounces+kzerohb=gmail.com@contesting.com> on
> behalf of Richard DiDonna <richnn3w@gmail.com>
> Sent: Saturday, June 3, 2023 11:35:25 AM
> To: Pete Smith N4ZR <pete.n4zr@gmail.com>
> Cc: cq-contest@contesting.com <cq-contest@contesting.com>
> Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Looking up on QRZ.com
>
> Well how far ?up? or back do we want to take this. How about N1MM or
> Wintest that prefill 25 when you work a JA in the exchange field. Or how
> about a prefill in NAQP that fills in Tom MD when you work K3AJ.
>
> You could argue that they?re all guesses - which could be wrong.
>
> QRZ data or ULS data is presumed to be correct.
>
> I think looking up callsign data from the licensing authority during or
> after the contest is a bridge too far.
>
> 73 Rich NN3W
>
> > On Jun 3, 2023, at 12:26 PM, Pete Smith N4ZR <pete.n4zr@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > ?But then, why are call history files or super check partial files not
> illegal? For that matter, cluster-derived spot information (even if only
> the callsign) isn't derived from on-the-air activity by the recipient.
> Seems to me like this is a bridge long crossed.
> >
> > 73, Pete N4ZR
> >
> >> On 6/3/2023 5:29 AM, Stanley Zawrotny wrote:
> >> Looking up a callsign on QRZ can be considered assisted if the contest
> uses any of the information provided as part of an exchange; name or state
> are the most common, counties are used in state QSO parties.
> >>
> >> Stan, K4SBZ
> >>
> >> "Real radio bounces off the sky."
> >>
> >>>> On Jun 3, 2023, at 1:57 AM, Doug Bates<kv4zy.1@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> ?Art,
> >>> I don't claim to know all, but it strikes me as strange that a callsign
> >>> lookup on any database could be against any rules. The nearest thing I
> can
> >>> think of that may be anywhere near related in the rules of some
> contests is
> >>> forbidding "Assisted" where contesters follow a cluster to find
> contacts
> >>> that are currently reported as being on. Callsign lookup does not seem
> to
> >>> me to be anywhere close to using a cluster to find contacts. But what
> do I
> >>> know:)
> >>> 73 & God Bless
> >>> De KV4ZY
> >>>
> >>>> On Fri, Jun 2, 2023 at 9:24?PM Art Boyars<artboyars@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> On the N1MM reflector somebody asked about how to use the "QRZ" button
> >>>> during the contest for calls that don't appear in the "check"
> window. I
> >>>> guess he was talking about the SCP or CHF data files loaded into N1MM.
> >>>>
> >>>> A few people commented that looking it up on QRZ.com (or some other
> online
> >>>> database??) during the contest was against the rules.
> >>>>
> >>>> I don't see any difference between using an online databas and using
> SCP
> >>>> and CHF (except that SCP/CHF is faster).
> >>>>
> >>>> What do you wise people think?
> >>>>
> >>>> 73, art K3KU
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> CQ-Contest mailing list
> >>>> CQ-Contest@contesting.com
> >>>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
> >>>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> CQ-Contest mailing list
> >>> CQ-Contest@contesting.com
> >>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> CQ-Contest mailing list
> >> CQ-Contest@contesting.com
> >> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
> > _______________________________________________
> > CQ-Contest mailing list
> > CQ-Contest@contesting.com
> > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
> _______________________________________________
> CQ-Contest mailing list
> CQ-Contest@contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
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> CQ-Contest@contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of CQ-Contest Digest, Vol 246, Issue 3
> ******************************************
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