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Re: [CQ-Contest] ARRL to allow self-spotting in contests

To: Pete Smith N4ZR <pete.n4zr@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] ARRL to allow self-spotting in contests
From: Richard F DiDonna NN3W <richnn3w@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2022 10:55:09 -0500
List-post: <mailto:cq-contest@contesting.com>
Waiting for the DOS attacks on the spotting networks to start....

73 Rich NN3W

On Thu, Feb 17, 2022 at 10:54 AM Pete Smith N4ZR <pete.n4zr@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Ria, I'm not frustrated... I am simply concerned that allowing
> self-spotting will make it much less pleasant for me to pursue my
> personal goals.  If everyone and their sibling self spots, that will
> markedly reduce my chances as of being first on a spot when someone
> comes on a new band, which is my go-to technique. What's to stop them
> from self-spotting their intended run frequency *before* they come on a
> new band?
>
> Also, as someone pointed out, the potential for malicious spotting is
> great.  If I want to sabotage your operation, what's to stop me from
> posting spots of you on the wrong band or frequency?
>
> I simply think this was not well thought out, and that the result would
> have been different (and better) had the wider contesting community been
> more involved.
>
> 73, Pete N4ZR
> Check out the new Reverse Beacon Network
> web server at<http://beta.reversebeacon.net>.
> For spots, please use your favorite
> "retail" DX cluster.
>
> On 2/17/2022 5:46 AM, rjairam@gmail.com wrote:
> > It really isn’t the “nobody asked us” defense. Quite the opposite.
> > There were several in the contest community who wanted contest rules
> > out of the hands of the full Board and into the hands of the CAC and
> > radiosport department. It doesn’t mean we don’t have input. It simply
> > means that we don’t have a formal vote on every contest rule change.
> >
> > As for smaller S&P stations? I’m not sure what changes for you. Care
> > to elaborate?
> >
> > I think a lot of us with smaller stations share frustrations of not
> > being able to be competitive, for various reasons.
> >
> >
> > Ria
> > N2RJ
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Feb 17, 2022 at 1:05 AM Pete Smith N4ZR <pete.n4zr@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >     But Ria, what about those of us with small stations who like assisted
> >     S&P? Surely there should be room for those of us who don't want to
> >     self-spot, but find unassisted S&P endless frustration. I'm with
> >     you -
> >     surely it would have been better to add a class.
> >
> >     As for the Board not having voted on these new rules, why the heck
> >     not?
> >     Surely this isn't the "nobody asked us" defense?  If the Board aren't
> >     responsible for what people subordinate to you do, who is?
> >
> >     73, Pete N4ZR
> >     Check out the new Reverse Beacon Network
> >     web server at<http://beta.reversebeacon.net>.
> >     For spots, please use your favorite
> >     "retail" DX cluster.
> >
> >     On 2/16/2022 9:11 PM, rjairam@gmail.com wrote:
> >     > Hans, things progressed exactly as some of the harshest critics
> >     desired it
> >     > to go.
> >     >
> >     > But anyway, everything is in the minutes. There were no motions
> >     by the
> >     > Board to adopt these rules.
> >     >
> >     > Do I agree with them? My desire was for an “ultra unlimited”
> >     category to
> >     > have streaming and self spotting. I didn’t get that. I’m one voice.
> >     >
> >     > Do we need to adapt and evolve? Yes.
> >     >
> >     > But I’m glad we kept unassisted, so those who desire legacy
> >     contesting have
> >     > their sandbox to play in.
> >     >
> >     > Ria
> >     > N2RJ
> >     >
> >     > On Wed, Feb 16, 2022 at 8:53 PM Hans Brakob<kzerohb@gmail.com>
> >     wrote:
> >     >
> >     >> Nice sidestep, Director.
> >     >>
> >     >> 73, de Hans, KØHB
> >     >> “Just a Boy and his Radio”™
> >     >> ------------------------------
> >     >> *From:*
> >     CQ-Contest<cq-contest-bounces+kzerohb=gmail.com@contesting.com>
> >     >> on behalf ofrjairam@gmail.com <rjairam@gmail.com>
> >     >> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 16, 2022 7:24:37 PM
> >     >>
> >     >> *To:* Ken Boasi<n2zn@rochester.rr.com>
> >     >> *Cc:* Barry W2UP<w2up.co@gmail.com>; CQ-Contest Reflector <
> >     >> cq-contest@contesting.com>
> >     >> *Subject:* Re: [CQ-Contest] ARRL to allow self-spotting in
> contests
> >     >>
> >     >> The full Board does not make a motion to adopt rules changes
> >     anymore.
> >     >> This goes direct from the PSC to the radiosport department.
> >     There is a
> >     >> PSC report that is adopted (in the consent agenda) but that's
> about
> >     >> it. Also, the CAC is actually driving these rule changes now
> >     with the
> >     >> PSC merely approving their recommendations.
> >     >>
> >     >> Ria
> >     >> N2RJ
> >     >>
> >     >> On Wed, Feb 16, 2022 at 4:43 PM Ken
> >     Boasi<n2zn@rochester.rr.com> wrote:
> >     >>> I’m not an ARRL apologist, but the CAC has been discussing
> >     this since at
> >     >> least a year ago, and made a recommendation for this change in
> >     their July
> >     >> meeting.  You can look up the minutes on the ARRL website.  It
> >     is task
> >     >> 2020.5.
> >     >>> I presume it was adopted in January at the ARRL Board meeting.
> >     >>>
> >     >>> I am not in favor of the change, but I guess I had my chance
> >     to comment
> >     >> on this (like the rest of us) over the past year, and failed to
> >     do so,
> >     >> either because I wasn’t paying attention, forgot to, or just
> >     assumed that
> >     >> “they would never do something like that”. Lesson learned…
> >     >>> 73, Ken N2ZN
> >     >>>
> >     >>>
> >     >>>
> >     >>>
> >     >>>
> >     >>>
> >     >>>> On Feb 16, 2022, at 3:35 PM, Barry W2UP<w2up.co@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >     >>>>
> >     >>>> So which contest software will be the first to add,
> >     "self-spot every
> >     >> 15
> >     >>>> seconds"?
> >     >>>>
> >     >>>> Seems ARRL is back on its secrecy kick.  I just renewed my ARRL
> >     >> membership
> >     >>>> for the 52nd year.  It may be my last.
> >     >>>>
> >     >>>> Barry W2UP
> >     >>>>
> >     >>>>> On Wed, Feb 16, 2022 at 10:36 AM
> >     PY2NY<py2ny.vitor@gmail.com> wrote:
> >     >>>>>
> >     >>>>> Good afternoon.
> >     >>>>>
> >     >>>>> I don't know exactly what to say or think about. My first
> >     impression
> >     >>>>> isn't good, including for those guys that are always
> "Assisted".
> >     >>>>> DXCluster will have thousands of self-spots.
> >     >>>>> Thanks God I'm always "no-Assisted"...
> >     >>>>>
> >     >>>>> 73 DX  and see you all next weekend.
> >     >>>>> .
> >     >>>>> ..
> >     >>>>> ...
> >     >>>>> --------------------------------
> >     >>>>> PY2NY / SP9NY / V26NY  - Vitor Luis Aidar dos Santos
> >     >>>>> http://military-jeep-brasil.blogspot.com.br/
> >     >>>>>
> >     >>>>>
> >     >>>>>
> >     >>>>> Em qua., 16 de fev. de 2022 às 09:23, Randy Thompson <
> >     >> k5zd@outlook.com>
> >     >>>>> escreveu:
> >     >>>>>
> >     >>>>>>  From the ARRL Contest Update today:
> >     >>>>>>
> >     >>>>>> "New Rules in effect for all ARRL HF Contests in June
> >     >>>>>> Starting with the ARRL International Digital Contest, in all
> >     >> categories
> >     >>>>>> that allow assistance (Unlimited), the use of online and other
> >     >>>>> non-amateur
> >     >>>>>> radio platforms including but not limited to social media,
> >     live video
> >     >>>>>> streaming, and internet chat rooms will be allowed. In all
> >     Unlimited
> >     >> and
> >     >>>>>> Multioperator categories, the prohibition of self-spotting,
> and
> >     >> asking
> >     >>>>>> another station to spot you, will also be removed."
> >     >>>>>>
> >     >>>>>> Wow.  It was one thing for the VHF contests to allow use of
> >     chat
> >     >> rooms
> >     >>>>> and
> >     >>>>>> telephone calls, now this is extended to all HF contests.
> >     It should
> >     >> be
> >     >>>>>> interesting to see what unintended consequences result from
> >     allowing
> >     >>>>>> multi-ops and assisted competitors to spot themselves. You
> >     could spot
> >     >>>>>> yourself with every CQ if you wanted to. Or you can call
> >     people on
> >     >> the
> >     >>>>>> phone and ask them to get on the air. Or send out email
> >     reminders to
> >     >> work
> >     >>>>>> you during the contest.
> >     >>>>>>
> >     >>>>>> It is likely to have the most impact on SSB to produce
> spotting
> >     >> equal to
> >     >>>>>> what the RBN does for CW and RTTY.
> >     >>>>>>
> >     >>>>>> For an organization that has always been so timid and
> >     conservative on
> >     >>>>> rule
> >     >>>>>> changes, the ARRL seems to have sprung this one without much
> >     >> consultation
> >     >>>>>> with the contest community.  I assume it is in reaction to
> >     the W2RE
> >     >>>>>> incident several years ago in ARRL DX where he used live
> >     streaming on
> >     >>>>>> Facebook during the contest.
> >     >>>>>>
> >     >>>>>>
> >     >>>>>> Randy K5ZD
> >     >>>>>>
> >     >>>>>> _______________________________________________
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> >     >>>>>> CQ-Contest@contesting.com
> >     >>>>>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
> >     >>>>>>
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