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Re: [CQ-Contest] ARRL to allow self-spotting in contests

To: Jamie WW3S <ww3s@zoominternet.net>
Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] ARRL to allow self-spotting in contests
From: "rjairam@gmail.com" <rjairam@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2022 09:31:20 -0500
List-post: <mailto:cq-contest@contesting.com>
Actually you can also ask Craig K9CT as he was the chair or your division
rep (all are listed).

Ria
N2RJ

On Thu, Feb 17, 2022 at 9:29 AM rjairam@gmail.com <rjairam@gmail.com> wrote:

> It was in the July 2021 CAC report:
>
>
> http://www.arrl.org/files/file/ODV/Board%20Meeting%20July%202021/Document%2022%20Contest%20Advisory%20Committee%20Report.pdf
>
> Pages 11-12 are pertinent.
>
> Chas K3WW was on the CAC at that time so could probably provide further
> input as to the rationale. Zev N2WKS is also on the CAC.
>
> Ria
> N2RJ
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 17, 2022 at 8:49 AM Jamie WW3S <ww3s@zoominternet.net> wrote:
>
>> was anyone, ANYONE, surveyed or asked about these changes prior to them
>> being enacted.....anyone ???? Bueller ?!?!?!?
>>
>> ------ Original Message ------
>> From: "Ron Notarius W3WN via CQ-Contest" <cq-contest@contesting.com>
>> To: "rjairam@gmail.com" <rjairam@gmail.com>; "pete.n4zr@gmail.com"
>> <pete.n4zr@gmail.com>
>> Cc: "cq-contest@contesting.com" <cq-contest@contesting.com>
>> Sent: 2/17/2022 8:42:06 AM
>> Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] ARRL to allow self-spotting in contests
>>
>> >Regardless of the validity of the "nobody asked us" argument, there
>> remains a perception (at least) that a minority of contest operators are
>> making changes for their own sakes, and not necessarily for the improvement
>> of the contest in question as a whole.
>> >And that these changes, some of which may actually be beneficial for all
>> in both the short and long run, are being implemented whether or not other
>> members of the worldwide contesting operators/community have a say in it...
>> or if they have a say, are necessarily listened to.
>> >The result of this perception... and whether it is accurate or not is
>> not the point... is that some operators will choose to simply not bother to
>> operate a contest, or will scale back to casual operating rather than
>> competitive operating, as they had done in the past.  Which will result in
>> a net loss in potential contest contacts for all. (Granted, some of that
>> may and will happen whenever there is a change in the rules... I'm simply
>> suggesting that it is more so when operators believe that their opinions
>> are neither solicited nor considered)
>> >That's my observation on the situation.  Take it into consideration as
>> much or as little as you like.
>> >73, ron w3wn
>> >
>> >
>> >-----Original Message-----
>> >From: rjairam@gmail.com <rjairam@gmail.com>
>> >To: Pete Smith N4ZR <pete.n4zr@gmail.com>
>> >Cc: cq-contest@contesting.com
>> >Sent: Thu, Feb 17, 2022 7:52 am
>> >Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] ARRL to allow self-spotting in contests
>> >
>> >It really isn’t the “nobody asked us” defense. Quite the opposite. There
>> >were several in the contest community who wanted contest rules out of the
>> >hands of the full Board and into the hands of the CAC and radiosport
>> >department. It doesn’t mean we don’t have input. It simply means that we
>> >don’t have a formal vote on every contest rule change.
>> >
>> >As for smaller S&P stations? I’m not sure what changes for you. Care to
>> >elaborate?
>> >
>> >I think a lot of us with smaller stations share frustrations of not being
>> >able to be competitive, for various reasons.
>> >
>> >
>> >Ria
>> >N2RJ
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >On Thu, Feb 17, 2022 at 1:05 AM Pete Smith N4ZR <pete.n4zr@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >>  But Ria, what about those of us with small stations who like assisted
>> >>  S&P? Surely there should be room for those of us who don't want to
>> >>  self-spot, but find unassisted S&P endless frustration.  I'm with you
>> -
>> >>  surely it would have been better to add a class.
>> >>
>> >>  As for the Board not having voted on these new rules, why the heck
>> not?
>> >>  Surely this isn't the "nobody asked us" defense?  If the Board aren't
>> >>  responsible for what people subordinate to you do, who is?
>> >>
>> >>  73, Pete N4ZR
>> >>  Check out the new Reverse Beacon Network
>> >>  web server at<http://beta.reversebeacon.net>.
>> >>  For spots, please use your favorite
>> >>  "retail" DX cluster.
>> >>
>> >>  On 2/16/2022 9:11 PM, rjairam@gmail.com wrote:
>> >>  > Hans, things progressed exactly as some of the harshest critics
>> desired
>> >>  it
>> >>  > to go.
>> >>  >
>> >>  > But anyway, everything is in the minutes. There were no motions by
>> the
>> >>  > Board to adopt these rules.
>> >>  >
>> >>  > Do I agree with them? My desire was for an “ultra unlimited”
>> category to
>> >>  > have streaming and self spotting. I didn’t get that. I’m one voice.
>> >>  >
>> >>  > Do we need to adapt and evolve? Yes.
>> >>  >
>> >>  > But I’m glad we kept unassisted, so those who desire legacy
>> contesting
>> >>  have
>> >>  > their sandbox to play in.
>> >>  >
>> >>  > Ria
>> >>  > N2RJ
>> >>  >
>> >>  > On Wed, Feb 16, 2022 at 8:53 PM Hans Brakob<kzerohb@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >>  >
>> >>  >> Nice sidestep, Director.
>> >>  >>
>> >>  >> 73, de Hans, KØHB
>> >>  >> “Just a Boy and his Radio”™
>> >>  >> ------------------------------
>> >>  >> *From:* CQ-Contest<cq-contest-bounces+kzerohb=
>> gmail.com@contesting.com>
>> >>  >> on behalf ofrjairam@gmail.com  <rjairam@gmail.com>
>> >>  >> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 16, 2022 7:24:37 PM
>> >>  >>
>> >>  >> *To:* Ken Boasi<n2zn@rochester.rr.com>
>> >>  >> *Cc:* Barry W2UP<w2up.co@gmail.com>; CQ-Contest Reflector <
>> >>  >> cq-contest@contesting.com>
>> >>  >> *Subject:* Re: [CQ-Contest] ARRL to allow self-spotting in contests
>> >>  >>
>> >>  >> The full Board does not make a motion to adopt rules changes
>> anymore.
>> >>  >> This goes direct from the PSC to the radiosport department. There
>> is a
>> >>  >> PSC report that is adopted (in the consent agenda) but that's about
>> >>  >> it. Also, the CAC is actually driving these rule changes now with
>> the
>> >>  >> PSC merely approving their recommendations.
>> >>  >>
>> >>  >> Ria
>> >>  >> N2RJ
>> >>  >>
>> >>  >> On Wed, Feb 16, 2022 at 4:43 PM Ken Boasi<n2zn@rochester.rr.com>
>> >>  wrote:
>> >>  >>> I’m not an ARRL apologist, but the CAC has been discussing this
>> since
>> >>  at
>> >>  >> least a year ago, and made a recommendation for this change in
>> their
>> >>  July
>> >>  >> meeting.  You can look up the minutes on the ARRL website.  It is
>> task
>> >>  >> 2020.5.
>> >>  >>> I presume it was adopted in January at the ARRL Board meeting.
>> >>  >>>
>> >>  >>> I am not in favor of the change, but I guess I had my chance to
>> comment
>> >>  >> on this (like the rest of us) over the past year, and failed to do
>> so,
>> >>  >> either because I wasn’t paying attention, forgot to, or just
>> assumed
>> >>  that
>> >>  >> “they would never do something like that”. Lesson learned…
>> >>  >>> 73, Ken N2ZN
>> >>  >>>
>> >>  >>>
>> >>  >>>
>> >>  >>>
>> >>  >>>
>> >>  >>>
>> >>  >>>> On Feb 16, 2022, at 3:35 PM, Barry W2UP<w2up.co@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >>  >>>>
>> >>  >>>> So which contest software will be the first to add, "self-spot
>> every
>> >>  >> 15
>> >>  >>>> seconds"?
>> >>  >>>>
>> >>  >>>> Seems ARRL is back on its secrecy kick.  I just renewed my ARRL
>> >>  >> membership
>> >>  >>>> for the 52nd year.  It may be my last.
>> >>  >>>>
>> >>  >>>> Barry W2UP
>> >>  >>>>
>> >>  >>>>> On Wed, Feb 16, 2022 at 10:36 AM PY2NY<py2ny.vitor@gmail.com>
>> >>  wrote:
>> >>  >>>>>
>> >>  >>>>> Good afternoon.
>> >>  >>>>>
>> >>  >>>>> I don't know exactly what to say or think about. My first
>> impression
>> >>  >>>>> isn't good, including for those guys that are always "Assisted".
>> >>  >>>>> DXCluster will have thousands of self-spots.
>> >>  >>>>> Thanks God I'm always "no-Assisted"...
>> >>  >>>>>
>> >>  >>>>> 73 DX  and see you all next weekend.
>> >>  >>>>> .
>> >>  >>>>> ..
>> >>  >>>>> ...
>> >>  >>>>> --------------------------------
>> >>  >>>>> PY2NY / SP9NY / V26NY  - Vitor Luis Aidar dos Santos
>> >>  >>>>> http://military-jeep-brasil.blogspot.com.br/
>> >>  >>>>>
>> >>  >>>>>
>> >>  >>>>>
>> >>  >>>>> Em qua., 16 de fev. de 2022 às 09:23, Randy Thompson <
>> >>  >> k5zd@outlook.com>
>> >>  >>>>> escreveu:
>> >>  >>>>>
>> >>  >>>>>>  From the ARRL Contest Update today:
>> >>  >>>>>>
>> >>  >>>>>> "New Rules in effect for all ARRL HF Contests in June
>> >>  >>>>>> Starting with the ARRL International Digital Contest, in all
>> >>  >> categories
>> >>  >>>>>> that allow assistance (Unlimited), the use of online and other
>> >>  >>>>> non-amateur
>> >>  >>>>>> radio platforms including but not limited to social media, live
>> >>  video
>> >>  >>>>>> streaming, and internet chat rooms will be allowed. In all
>> Unlimited
>> >>  >> and
>> >>  >>>>>> Multioperator categories, the prohibition of self-spotting, and
>> >>  >> asking
>> >>  >>>>>> another station to spot you, will also be removed."
>> >>  >>>>>>
>> >>  >>>>>> Wow.  It was one thing for the VHF contests to allow use of
>> chat
>> >>  >> rooms
>> >>  >>>>> and
>> >>  >>>>>> telephone calls, now this is extended to all HF contests. It
>> should
>> >>  >> be
>> >>  >>>>>> interesting to see what unintended consequences result from
>> allowing
>> >>  >>>>>> multi-ops and assisted competitors to spot themselves. You
>> could
>> >>  spot
>> >>  >>>>>> yourself with every CQ if you wanted to. Or you can call
>> people on
>> >>  >> the
>> >>  >>>>>> phone and ask them to get on the air. Or send out email
>> reminders to
>> >>  >> work
>> >>  >>>>>> you during the contest.
>> >>  >>>>>>
>> >>  >>>>>> It is likely to have the most impact on SSB to produce spotting
>> >>  >> equal to
>> >>  >>>>>> what the RBN does for CW and RTTY.
>> >>  >>>>>>
>> >>  >>>>>> For an organization that has always been so timid and
>> conservative
>> >>  on
>> >>  >>>>> rule
>> >>  >>>>>> changes, the ARRL seems to have sprung this one without much
>> >>  >> consultation
>> >>  >>>>>> with the contest community.  I assume it is in reaction to the
>> W2RE
>> >>  >>>>>> incident several years ago in ARRL DX where he used live
>> streaming
>> >>  on
>> >>  >>>>>> Facebook during the contest.
>> >>  >>>>>>
>> >>  >>>>>>
>> >>  >>>>>> Randy K5ZD
>> >>  >>>>>>
>> >>  >>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>> >>  >>>>>> CQ-Contest@contesting.com
>> >>  >>>>>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
>> >>  >>>>>>
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>> >>  >>>>>
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