I agree with the statements about "cheating" "the intent of the rules" and so
forth and how open logs won't stop it, but I for one do not especially want
open logs for each contest. 3 main reasons why:1
1. We haven't had open logs yet, which is now coming up on 50 years or so, and
everything seems to be going just fine. What is broken that open logs will
fix? If you want to see another station's log for strategy or propagation
study, ask them for it. Most would be willing to share.
2. Having open logs won't encourage anyone else to participate, but it might
discourage some, for whatever reason. There seems to be a hypersensitivity in
America right now to the "right to privacy". I don't understand it, but it is
there. Do we really want to do anything that will discourage people from
participating in a VHF/UHF contest?
3. It will potentially cheapen the VUCC program. That is one reason why the
ARRL in general wasn't supportive of on-line logs that included time of QSO
when it came to DXCC credit. A couple of years ago I was W5TD. Now W5TDN is
another big 6m op. Suppose I go through the published log, find his QSOs, and
send QSLs for them trying to convince the other station that he busted my call
and actually worked me. After all, I have the correct QSO time (obtained from
the log).
I think this idea raises several problems and solves none.
73s John AA5JG
--- On Thu, 12/4/08, Paul Kiesel <k7cw@yahoo.com> wrote:
> From: Paul Kiesel <k7cw@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [VHFcontesting] Great idea -- Kudos to Grid Pirates
> To: vhfcontesting@contesting.com
> Date: Thursday, December 4, 2008, 6:39 PM
> You guys kill me. You know, it's awfully hard to sit
> here reading about all this conjured up evilness, deception
> and blatant disregard for the "intent" of the
> rules without jumping in. So, here I am, since I
> couldn't hold back any longer. I know there are many
> others who agree with me, but I would be willing to bet that
> they can't see the point in getting into it on here now
> when people continue to not understand after all these
> months of bellyaching.
>
> Publishing the logs will do absolutely nothing towards
> ridding you of the tactics of the grid circlers and other
> "offenders." It's obvious what they are doing.
> And it's equally as obvious that they are within the
> rules as they do it. Seeing their logs won't change
> that. Those who are after "burning" the infamous
> grid circlers, captive rovers, etc. aren't going to get
> their way. The problems clearly lie within the contest
> rules. This is why the term of the VUAC has been extended.
> The ARRL knows that things need to be tended to. Each VHF
> contester has a representative on the VUAC. The list of
> members is on the ARRL web site. If you haven't
> communicated yet with your representative on the committee,
> you ought to consider doing that instead of letting yourself
> to get all heated up unnecessarily. As far as catching guys
> who fill their logs with "contacts" that they
> didn't make goes, forget it. Most people don't
> inherently cheat and those who do would cheat
> never come close to winning a contest, anyway. Put another
> way: Most who score well in contests find greater
> gratification from competing honorably than they would from
> winning. These people, in my opinion, would not cheat in
> order to win.
>
> Regarding the real topic, open logs:
> I think there should be open logs. After all, this is a
> competition. One could ask how he should be able to modify
> his own tactics in order to compete better if he
> couldn't analyze his competition's tactics.
> You'd have to be able to see who they worked and when on
> each band. Knowing the transmission modes they used might
> turn out to be of great value, I think.
>
> I think that if the ARRL has good reasons for not
> publishing the logs, they should state them in the rules and
> then everybody move on. (I have a hunch that this situation
> has a lot more to do with the expense of it than it does
> with anything else.)
>
> Bottom line: Guys aren't winning contests because of
> cheating. You're not going to make anything better by
> trying to catch them. If you don't like what's going
> on, call your VUAC rep and be done with it.
>
> K7CW
>
>
>
>
> --- On Thu, 12/4/08, k4gun@comcast.net
> <k4gun@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> > From: k4gun@comcast.net <k4gun@comcast.net>
> > Subject: Re: [VHFcontesting] Great idea -- Kudos to
> Grid Pirates
> > To: aa5jg@yahoo.com
> > Cc: "Todd Sprinkmann"
> <sprinkies@excel.net>, vhfcontesting@contesting.com
> > Date: Thursday, December 4, 2008, 10:50 AM
> > I wonder the same thing. Take our grid circle
> buddies for
> > example. The winner of the limited rover category
> had
> > exactly 77 QSOs in each of the 4 microwave bands in
> which he
> > operated. Is there any doubt as to how that
> happened?
> > Nope. We all know his log for each band will reveal
> that
> > he only worked the same small group during the
> contest.
> > Posting his actual log will not change that.
> >
> >
> >
> > The only thing that it might accomplish is to bring to
> > light some other practices. For instance, its
> possible
> > that point-hungry stations could be looking through
> old
> > callsign books and picking out calls they know are not
> > operating in VHF contests. They could be entering
> those
> > into their logs because they know there is no penalty
> for
> > having a unique call in their log. The people at the
> ARRL
> > have no way to verify that a QSO was or was not
> made. If
> > the logs were public, somebody who knows those
> stations may
> > call foul. If there are multiple cases like this, it
> could
> > be very ugly for those who get caught.
> >
> >
> >
> > As I write this, I hope I'm not touching a third
> rail
> > here. I have no idea if such a practice ever happens
> or if
> > it does, how common it is. I would hope its rare at
> > worst. Making logs public would reveal this pretty
> > quickly. It wouldn't change a thing about our
> rover
> > discussion but could heap a lot of shame on unethical
> > stations.
> >
> >
> >
> > Steve
> >
> > K4GUN/R
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "John Geiger" <aa5jg@yahoo.com>
> > To: vhfcontesting@contesting.com, "Todd
> > Sprinkmann" <sprinkies@excel.net>
> > Sent: Thursday, December 4, 2008 6:28:31 PM GMT +00:00
> > Casablanca / Monrovia
> > Subject: Re: [VHFcontesting] Great idea -- Kudos to
> Grid
> > Pirates
> >
> > I do have one question about the open logs: A couple
> of
> > weeks ago we have a long discussion about all of the
> > problems with contesting (especially roving) with
> everyone
> > saying we need open access to logs. Now we have it
> in a
> > limited way (so far) and I want to know:
> >
> > "How does having open access to logs fix any of
> > these problems?"
> >
> > 73s John AA5JG
> >
> >
> > --- On Thu, 12/4/08, Todd Sprinkmann
> > <sprinkies@excel.net> wrote:
> >
> > > From: Todd Sprinkmann <sprinkies@excel.net>
>
> > > Subject: [VHFcontesting] Great idea -- Kudos to
> Grid
> > Pirates
> > > To: vhfcontesting@contesting.com
> > > Date: Thursday, December 4, 2008, 11:28 AM
> > > I am also in favor of making ARRL VHF/UHF contest
> logs
> >
> > > public, and I have let my VUAC rep know.
> > >
> > > This is a great idea by the Grid Pirates and
> I
> > will also
> > > submit
> > > what I can to their repository.
> > >
> > > As the operator of well-attended SSB and FM
> nets
> > on 144
> > > and 146 in the Midwest, I am always looking for
> ways
> > to
> > > contact more potential VHF'ers, to let them
> know
> > about
> > > the
> > > nets, and to increase overall activity on VHF.
> Which
> > may
> > > also help get new contesters on the air, or
> motivate
> > > veterans
> > > who have dropped out.
> > >
> > > (Anyone who needs my net info is free to
> email me
> >
> > > directly
> > > and I'll get you up to speed. We're
> talking
> > Wed.
> > > nights for
> > > SSB, and Thur. night for FM simplex. SSB is
> capable
> > of
> > > working from Ohio to Kansas City, MO)
> > >
> > > Again, congrats to the Grid Pirates for
> taking
> > the
> > > initiative on
> > > this. No layered committees, no gnashing of
> teeth,
> > just
> > > action.
> > > Well done.
> > >
> > > 73,
> > > Todd KC9BQA EN63ao 40 N of
> Milwaukee
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > VHFcontesting mailing list
> > > VHFcontesting@contesting.com
> > >
> >
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/vhfcontesting
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> >
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>
>
>
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