I’ve been having a lot of fun with FT8 but it certainly has not replaced CW for
my DXing.
I do 80M-specific DX Marathon each year. So far this year I have 107 80M DXCCs
worked - 104 on CW and 3 on SSB. And none that I needed FT8 or RTTY for.
I will agree, if a guy doesn’t do CW, FT8 is probably going to be a big part of
his DX diet.
DXpedition rates are fun to listen to when they are doing 200+ an hour. Right
now FT8 (non-DXpedition mode) tops out at maybe 25 an hour when there are no
problems. The instant you have any sort of sequencing problem, the rate can
drop to 2 an hour. The experimental FT8 DXpedition mode may alleviate (through
parallel ongoing Qs) morning be guys sequencing problem from bringing
everything to a halt.
Tim N3QE
> On Mar 30, 2018, at 11:10 AM, <daraymond@iowatelecom.net>
> <daraymond@iowatelecom.net> wrote:
>
> IMHO, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see the demise of CW (alas).
> Between FT8 and RHR, topband standings as we have known them are virtually
> meaningless. The guy with a backyard vertical, reasonable radial system,
> and 100w can easily accomplish on topband (and get equal DXCC credit) what
> has historically taken a significant effort. . .QRO, large antennas/arrays,
> and receive antennas. As for the DXpeditions, they will quickly migrate to
> this mode with the improving QSO throughput as it requires comparatively
> little skill on the part of the operators. For me personally, it is
> disappointing to watch it all unfold. But unfold, it will. 73. .
> .Dave, W0FLS
>
> -----Original Message----- From: k1zm--- via Topband
> Sent: Friday, March 30, 2018 6:50 AM
> To: topband@contesting.com
> Subject: Topband: Straws in the Wind ....A 160m Dx'ing Sea Change is Upon us!
>
> Hello Gang
> I am probably not the only one who has been paying attention lately, but I
> may be the first to comment directly on what has been taking place right
> before our eyes the past two nights on 1.836kHz - and its possible
> implications going forward for future Dx'ing on 160m. Pls read on.
>
> I am sure most readers of these pages are well aware of the current
> dx'pedition to Malawi operating as 7Q7EI. Norbert DJ7JC has been a real
> trooper working the lowbands and has had quite a bit of success doing so - so
> well deserved kudos & thanks to Norbert. Norbert has managed to make quite a
> few NA stations happy with a NEW ONE on Topband and we all very much
> appreciate his efforts - well done Norbert - thank you!
>
> So what I am about to comment on next IN NO WAY is an negative opinion on
> Norbert - it is just an observation as to what is now occurring and its
> possible implications for all of us who like to work DX on 160M!.
>
> On or about 27 March, Norbert tried 160M CW operating on 1830kHz - in his
> grayline period - and was heard by a number of stations including NO3M and me
> here at VY2ZM. Others were in there too perhaps - Kaz K8KS may have been
> another and a few more as well. I also heard some EU stations in there
> calling among the NA stations.
>
> About 0228z, Norbert asnwered me as UY2ZM - went QRZ a few times but QRNN on
> his side prevented a legitimate qso. I heard him fine but I know he did not
> copy my callsign correctly - and later he even said so over ON4KST noting "I
> heard a few callers, mainly from EU but logged no NA or EU qso's on Topband -
> so I went back to 80M CW as the sun came up."
>
> The next night Norbert came on ON4KST chat and announced that he was going
> to try 1836 using the new FT8 Dx'pedition mode now in beta trials following
> its release by K1JT. I am told that the dx'pedition version of FT8 will also
> be used experimentally by the upcoming KH1 Dx'pedition.
>
> Dx'pedition Mode - offers some unique promise when and if it ever is fully
> conceived including:
>
> 1) A shortened qso sequence using only 2 of the traditional FT8 required QSO
> elements
> 2) The promise of simultaneous qso's between Multiple HOUNDS and the FOX (in
> this example the FOX was 7Q7EI)
> 3) The potential, as a result, of up to 300-400 qso's per hour may be
> possible one day - which would improve the overall qso totals of any
> dx'pedition - IF this ever becomes REALITY.
>
> So on night two Norbert came up on FT8 dx'pedition mode - first on 80m and I
> managed to work him fairly quickly here at VY2ZM.
>
> Others worked him as well - as we all struggled to learn exactly how to
> operate this new flavor of FT8. It is a bit tricky and I invite anyone
> reading this who may be interested to take a look - because Dx'pedition mode
> uses special settings within WSJT-x - and one must configure things exactly
> right - or it just does not function as one might expect traditional FT8 to
> function in order to complete qso's.
>
> Nearer to his SR, Norbert went to 1836 and I think he may have worked a
> couple of NA stations - I tried but without success because I did not pay
> close enough attention to ON4KST - and I came to 160m too late in the game to
> have a good shot as he went into daylight on his side.
>
> So what is going on here exactly? And why did I choose to make this post to
> Topband?
>
> The answer is fairly simple and stems from what I observed this past summer
> on 6M during the Sporadic E season. I happen to like to work 6M E during the
> summer and was all set around the end of June for what I hoped would be a
> great E season on 6M CW into Europe. I worked a couple of stations on CW in
> late June but during the first or second week of July, K1JT released the
> production version of FT8 and almost immediately everyone realized its
> potential (particularly those in the Mid and Far Western USA) - where it was
> immediately called a "GAME CHANGER" by K7JA and others on the Left Coast.
>
>
> Well - it SURELY WAS A GAME CHANGER - because I did not hear a single CW DX
> station out of Europe on 6M for the rest of the summer E season after that -
> everyone had qsy'ed to 50.313 to work FT8 - because it WORKED so well on 6M -
> even on E skip paths. And since I did not have FT8 capability - I was
> TOTALLY SHUT OUT and had NO 6M E season of Dx'ing - BUMMER!
>
>
> So how does this apply to Topband? Pls read on.....
>
>
> Last night was NIGHT 3 into NA on the lowbands from 7Q7EI - and Norbert was
> back - first on 160m on 1836 from about 0130z - until around 0320z - again on
> FT8 - in dx'pedition mode. By now, most of us had downloaded the dx'pedition
> mode version of WSJT-x and had sort of figured out how to do the parameter
> settings correctly - so quite a few QSO's ensued.
>
>
> I happened to be one of the lucky ones on 160M - there were quite a few
> others.
>
>
> Watching my screen though (along with KAZ K8KS) it was clear that K1JT still
> has some clean up work to do to refine the dx'pedition mode software -
> because the promise of 300 qso's per hour is not yet possible - but I think
> the throughput rate will one day improve materially. (:Last night the
> throughput was SO SLOW that some suggested to Norbert that he stop using
> dx'pedition mode in favor of the more reliable current release of FT8 that is
> on the air today.)
>
>
> Norbert also elected to stay on FT8 - despite many requests from those
> constrained by CW only capability to move over to CW mode - so those without
> FT8 basically sat on the sidelines last night watching all of this transpire.
> My thoughts at the time were - "Here we go again! This is 6M E season "DEJA
> VUE all over again - the 6M E migration to Ft8 was now happening all over
> again - but this time on 160M - and it suggests a real possibility of it
> becoming the choice of major dxpeditions going forward - meaning - FT8 is
> likely to be used on 160m far more regularly going forward and CW mode
> utilized much less perhaps (maybe!). My crystal ball is no better than yours
> - but if FT8 dx'pedition mode gets perfected by K1JT and becomes more
> EFFICIENT one day than CW mode - you can be SURE that it will become very
> popular and it will get used far more (at the expense of CW) by the rarer
> Dx'peditions when they choose to QSY to Topband!
>
>
> You can take that to the BANK!
>
> At one point, Norbert who was on CHAT all night long - lamented some of the
> comments he was seeing by others on CHAT. Basically, while he was more than
> courteous, it was clear that he felt like "HEY! I am the FOX here.....I get
> to choose to operate whatever mode I think will work - and those sitting in
> their comfortable chairs back at home (and not sitting in the heat here on
> the shores of Lake Malawi - really do not get to decide this.!! Again, I am
> the FOX here.......) Basically, Norbert was right on here - IMHO....
>
> Some more observations:
>
> 1) Experimental FT8 qso's are not completing reliably as they should - at
> least not yet all the time - for example: K8KZ was clearly seeing 7Q7EI
> calling him on his screen for at least 20 mins before the software linked up
> at each end to sent the RR73 message - the signal that the QSO was complete.
>
> And Norbert was clearly "seeing" K8KS for the same 20 mins - before they
> linked up to finalize and log the QSO. I had similar problems on 160M when
> working Norbert - so it is clear that K1JT has some more work to do,. But, we
> do have to realize that this is still only a BETA/experimental release - and
> YES - it does have some glitches and bugs yet to be ironed out.
>
> But it does work (after a fashion) and I am sure it will get better - and
> WHEN IT DOES become a fully functional PRODUCTION RELEASE, I do think we will
> witness some MAJOR operating changes going forward when working future
> DX'peditions and even when casual dx'ing on 160M - which is happening every
> night on 1840 today. I am seeing Wal W8LRL most every night - and am
> dabbling in it myself as is my XYL Miriam VY2HH - so old dawgs (like me) are
> being forced (sometimes kicking and screaming) to learn new tricks.
>
> One final comment:
>
> This all took place on 1836 and I think on 3569 down on 80m these past few
> nights. Traditional FT8 (according to the ARRL 160m bandplan) takes place on
> 1840. So I am hopeful that the migration to the new mode continues to take
> place in an orderly fashion because FT8 and CW really will not mix well -
> should FT8 start showing up below 1830 that will cause problems - (just my
> opinion) - but reality I think.
>
> So - I think that is the lot for now. Not much more to report - but for sure
> - "A change is coming to Dx'ing on 160M - there is NO DOUBT about it - I do
> not think this is a passing FAD. "DIGI-WIGI" or its other name "JINGLE
> BELLS" looks like it is here to stay!!!
>
> 73 JEFF K1ZM/VY2ZM
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Jeff Briggs
> DXing on the Edge: The Thrill of 160 Meters
> Available worldwide through BookBaby, Array Solutions, DX Engineering, Royal
> Society of Great Britain, & Amazon
>
>
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