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Re: [RTTY] ARRL attack on current RTTY users

To: rtty@contesting.com
Subject: Re: [RTTY] ARRL attack on current RTTY users
From: "Joe Subich, W4TV" <lists@subich.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2013 20:17:24 -0500
List-post: <rtty@contesting.com">mailto:rtty@contesting.com>

Chen makes the point here ... there is no *need* for increased symbol
rates.  The basis and purpose of the Amateur Service can be more
than adequately filled with the current symbol rate restrictions in
place.

1) there is no benefit to symbol rates greater than 100 bps for person
   to person communications, e.g. "keyboard" communications that are
   the basis of the "international goodwill" portion of the Amateur
   Service basis and purpose.
2) 300 bps communications proved to be more than adequate for store
   and forward messaging of short non-commercial, non-time critical
   traffic like personal greetings, and the other messaging typical
   of amateur radio (e.g., ARRL's "National Traffic System") when
   used - in conjunction with "channel busy" detection in the ARRL
   sponsored "automatic operation" STA in the mid 1980's.
3) with wide access to commercial data systems, there is no need for
   amateurs to be passing large volumes of file based traffic via HF
   and even the proponents of higher symbol rates are using commercial
   networks for their "backbone".
4) the overwhelming majority of "state of the art" amateur development
   in the last 20 years has been centered on low symbol rate protocols
   (and narrow bandwidth) - such work by Chen and others to improve
   "RTTY" decoding, G3PLX's work in developing PSK31 and work by Nobel
   Laureate Dr. Joe Taylor, K1JT in developing several extreme weak
   signal protocols.  All of these advances are *adversely impacted* by
   interference from the high symbol rate, wide bandwidth systems
   operating in auto-responder mode with *no* effective "channel
   busy" detectors.

Replacing the symbol rate limit with any occupied bandwidth standard
greater than 500 Hz would only serve to worsen already overcrowded
conditions in many of the "Data/RTTY" sub-bands and encourage more
interference to both person to person communications and those new
protocols that are advancing the state of the art.

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV


On 11/20/2013 6:32 PM, Kok Chen wrote:

On Nov 20, 2013, at 3:01 PM, Kai wrote:

I think that discussion should center around what the BW limit
[should] be for digital signals. The answer will likely be
something between 2200 Hz and 2800 Hz, because signals as wide as
2200 Hz are already permitted. It's good to discuss this.

For conversational (keyboard, human-to-human) digital modes, 300 Hz
to 500 Hz is ample, and wide enough to use statistical detection
methods that take advantage of the frequency diversity aspects of
selective fading on the HF bands.

300 Hz is also sufficient to do weak signal experiments to your
heart's content.

The only reason anything wider is needed is to transmit massive
amounts of "data" or digital voice.

Unless there is some enforceable rule that controls mutual
interference between conversational mode users and data mode users,
the proposed change by the ARRL only opens all of us to even worse
QRM.  Even a 1 kHz signal in the midst of an RTTY contest or pileup
can completely ruin it.  That is what is so wrong with the ARRL
proposal.

73 Chen, W7AY

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