Stan & Mats,
Let us be quite clear, Dim's actions were no mistake but a pre-meditated and
planned deception knowing the risks involved if discovered.A public apology
would be the right thing to do but in reality would it make any difference to
our perception of his character? Some may forgive but no-one would forget.
To hunt a wounded wolf until the end of the horizon might help us to "satisfy
our wish for
revenge", but does it really make things better? - RM2D.
That really isn't going to happen is it? The penalty which has been imposed is
solely a DQ for the 2014 entry only, he can return for this years CQ events, a
mere slap on the wrist in my view.
Something I have learned in my time on this planet is that people do not
change. The softly-softly, three strikes and you are out ete approaches to
offenders adopted in these past 40/50 years have been shown not to work, a
severe penalty for a first serious offence is the best policy. Prima- facia it
may appear an odd analogy for me to use but consider this - Iraq, Libya,
Tunisia, Egypt, who had hardline leadership had no turmoil within their own
boundaries whilst those original leaders were in power.. Whatever our own
opinions in the western world on those peoples limited, or lack of, democratic
and human rights what choices do you truly think the peoples of those
countries would settle for, now or before? We live in the real world Mats and
it is not an ideal one, your expressed thoughts on support and example are
commendable and may succeed with minor transgressors but would have very
limited success with the Dim's of this world.
In another thread it has been mentioned that a DQ in any qualifying event will
be a disbar to selection for a WRTC Team, a befitting rule which has some
teeth and no doubt will apply to Dim. I noted from those same rules that there
are qualifying places for 'Assisted' operators therefore there is absolutely no
reason or excuse for anybody who aspires to operate in WRTC to use undeclared
assistance.
73 Brian C4Z / 5B4AIZ.
From: Mats Strandberg <sm6lrr@gmail.com>
To: Stan Stockton <wa5rtg@gmail.com>
Cc: "cq-contest@contesting.com" <cq-contest@contesting.com>; Yuri
<ve3dz@rigexpert.net>
Sent: Friday, 15 May 2015, 12:51
Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Re. TO7A Debacle
Very well expressed Stan,
Anyone that openly admits a mistake, apologizes for it, and expresses a
sincere desire to improve, could ultimately be forgiven (by most people at
least).
However, and this is important, the person must come to that conclusion
himself, and then in public express his reasons for wrongdoing, and a
trustworthy plan how to change for the better.
Let us hope that this process will develop into reality eventually. I
believe that cheaters who convert to becoming reliable and honest
competitors again, will also have an important roll in changing other
persons' behavior into the better. Without good examples of change, others
will think it is impossible.
We are a community based on friendship, and we have an important function
to collectively bring people into the right thinking and ethics. If someone
fails, it is also our obligation to be there and support that person to
adjust behavior and return back to our community. To hunt a wounded wolf
until the end of the horizon might help us to "satisfy our wish for
revenge", but does it really make things better?
One person is now taking the full blow, while there were dozens of cheaters
in the 2014 CQWW. All others are in some way protected by the exposed one,
even if their offence to our sport is the same or even worse. Log padding,
unclaimed assistance, power cheating is the same to me. Nothing is better,
nothing is worse.
How many can with the hand on the heart say that they never cheated somehow
in sports, card games or in contesting. There are too many, way too big
amps out there, for all of us to be perfectly innocent. Running 3, 5 or 10
kW is nothing better than log padding or cheating with clusters or RBN. It
is still the same offence to those who practice 100% fair play contesting.
73 de RM2D, Mats
2015-05-15 12:14 GMT+03:00 Stan Stockton <wa5rtg@gmail.com>:
> Yuri,
>
> This needed to be said. I doubt Frank was thinking very clearly when he
> listed anything other than single op entries or entries where the log
> submission was known to be in Dim's control and did not mean to cast doubt
> on anyone and everyone who has ever operated in the same room over the
> years.
>
> The committee had a strong enough belief regarding unclaimed assistance
> that they were willing to DQ. EA5RS found solid proof of an even more
> major crime they had apparently not found.
>
> This whole thing resembled a pack of wolves going after a wounded animal.
>
> I feel somewhat sorry for Dim. It's very sad since he appears to be good
> enough to perhaps win playing fair. I'm sure, like many of us, radio
> contesting is an important thing to him. He is ruined, but ultimately is
> to blame for the outcome.
>
> Whether the contest community as a whole is willing to ever forgive him if
> he is apologetic and proves he can reform his ways is a big question.
> Personally, I hope he confesses, apologizes and asks for forgiveness.
> Then, and only then, will we see.
>
> 73...Stan, K5GO
>
> > On May 14, 2015, at 7:39 AM, Yuri <ve3dz@rigexpert.net> wrote:
> >
> > Good morning Frank.
> > I see you listed UGR's WRTC results and also all his Multi Op
> participations below.
> > Do I understand you correctly that you also question all these scores?
> > Do you know that all WRTC teams had onsite referees who were monitoring
> teams audio live 24/hr?
> > For the record - UT5UGR was my partner at WRTC 2006. Do you suggest that
> the PW5X score you listed below is not legit? As well as all his other M/S
> and M/M participation?
> > Now all the people with whom he operated over the years are under
> suspicion?
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > Yuri VE3DZ/W8
> >
> > P.S. You missed his 1996 WRTC score (K6K) where we were partners too and
> ended up being #32 (or 34?) and also UGR's WRTC 2000 score where he and his
> partner were outside of top ten...
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- From: <donovanf@starpower.net>
> > To: <cq-contest@contesting.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2015 10:31 AM
> > Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Re. TO7A Debacle
> >
> >
> >> Hi Mike,
> >>
> >>
> >> Exactly the same log padding technique is present the the 2013 and 2014
> >> TO7A CQWW CW public logs. In both cases proven well beyond a
> >> reasonable doubt.
> >>
> >>
> >> Many of UT5UGR's logs are public, available for crowdsourcing feedback.
> >> His log padding technique is now publicly known.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> There's a clear precedence for past and future actions against blatant
> >> cheaters in our radiosport hobby: W9WNV
> >>
> >>
> >> Does anyone now believe that any of the records below are legitimate?
> >> More than 30 of them are in he province of the CQ Contest Committee
> >> If so, please email me so I can sell you a bridge.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> CQ WW DX CW Contest 1989 UT5UGR SO-SB (80m) 4-th place world.
> >> CQ WW WPX SSB Contest 1990 UT5UGR SO-SB (40m) 7-th place world.
> >> AA DX SSB Contest 1990 RT1U M/S 1 place world.
> >> IARU HF World Championship 1990 RT1U M/S 4-th place world.
> >>
> >> CQ WW WPX CW Contest 1991 UT5UGR SO-SB (20m) 5-th place world.
> >> IARU HF World Championship 1991 RY1U M/S 2 place world.
> >>
> >> WAE SSB Contest 1991 RY1U M/S 2 place EU.
> >> IARU HF World Championship 1992 UT5UGR SO-Mixed 6-th place world.
> >>
> >> IARU HF World Championship 1993 UT5UGR SO-CW 7-th place world.
> >>
> >> IARU HF World Championship 1995 UT5UGR SO-Mixed 4-th place world.
> >>
> >> WAE CW Contest 1995 RU1A M/S 1 place EU.
> >> Russian DX Contest 2000 UT5UGR SO-Mixed 1 place world.
> >> CQ WW WPX SSB Contest 2000 UT5UGR SO-MB Assisted 7-th place world.
> >> IARU HF World Championship 2001 UT5UGR SO-CW 10-th place world.
> >> CQ WW WPX SSB Contest 2002 UT5UGR SO-SB (20m) Assisted 2 place world.
> >> CQ WW WPX CW Contest 2002 UT5UGR SO-SB (80m) Assisted 2 place world.
> >> CQ WW WPX RTTY Contest 2003 EM0U M/M 3 place world.
> >> CQ WW WPX CW Contest 2003 EN7Z M/S 7-th place world.
> >> IARU HF World Championship 2003 UT5UGR SO-Mixed 7-th place world.
> >>
> >> CQ WW WPX CW Contest 2004 UU7J M/2 4-th place world.
> >> IARU HF World Championship 2004 UT5UGR SO-SSB 1 place world.
> >>
> >> CQ WW DX RTTY Contest 2004 UU7J M/S 1 place world.
> >> CQ WW DX SSB Contest 2004 UU7J M/2 10-th place world.
> >> CQ WW DX CW Contest 2004 UU7J M/2 9-th place world.
> >> CQ WW WPX SSB Contest 2005 EM7J SO-SB (20m) 6-th place world.
> >> CQ WW WPX CW Contest UU7J M/S 5-th place world.
> >> WAE CW Contest 2005 UU7J M/S 3 place EU.
> >> WAE SSB Contest 2005 UU7J M/S 2 place EU.
> >> CQ WW DX RTTY Contest 2005 UU7J M/S 1 place world.
> >> CQ WW DX CW Contest 2005 UU7J M/2 10-th place world.
> >> WRTC 2006 PW5X 4-th place.
> >> WAE SSB Contest 2006 UU7J M/S 3 place EU.
> >> CQ WW DX RTTY Contest 2006 UU7J M/M 2 place world.
> >> CQ WW DX SSB Contest 2006 UU7J M/2 6-th place world.
> >> Russian DX Contest 2007 UT5UGR SO-Mixed 7-th place world.
> >> CQ WW WPX SSB Contest 2007 UU7J M/2 5-th place world.
> >> EU HF 2007 UT5UGR SO-Mixed 5-th place.
> >> CQ WW DX RTTY Contest 2007 UU7J M/M 2 place world.
> >> IARU HF World Championship 2008 HQ EM5HQ 2 place world.
> >> EU HF 2008 UT5UGR SO-SSB 5-th place.
> >> CQ WW DX CW Contest 2008 V31WA SO HP 6-th place world.
> >> ARRL DX CW Contest 2009 FM5KC SO HP 1 place world.
> >> IARU HF World Championship 2009 UT5UGR SO-SSB 1 place world.
> >>
> >> CQ WW DX SSB Contest 2009 TO7A SO-AB HP 10-th place world.
> >> CQ WW WPX SSB Contest 2010 TO7A SO-AB HP 4-th place world.
> >> CQ WW WPX CW Contest UT5UGR SO-SB (40m) HP Assisted 2 place world.
> >> CQ WW DX SSB Contest 2010 TO7A SO-AB HP 11-th place world, 3 NA.
> >> ARRL DX SSB Contest 2011 TO7A SO HP 2 place world.
> >> IARU HF World Championship 2011 UT5UGR SO-CW 6-th place world.
> >>
> >> CQ WW DX CW Contest 2011 TO7A SO-AB HP 7-th place world, 2 NA.
> >> CQ WW WPX SSB Contest 2012 UT5UGR SO-SB (160m) HP 3 place world.
> >> CQ WW WPX CW Contest 2012 UT5UGR SO-SB (160m) HP 1 place world.
> >> IARU HF World Championship 2012 UT5UGR SO-CW 4-th place world.
> >>
> >> CQ WW DX CW Contest 2012 TO7A SO-AB HP 6-th place world, 1 NA.
> >> CQ WW WPX CW Contest 2012 UT5UGR SO-SB (80m) HP 2 place world.
> >> IARU HF World Championship 2013 UT5UGR SO-MIX 4-th place world.
> >>
> >> CQ WW DX CW Contest 2013 TO7A SO-AB HP 2 place world, 1 NA.
> >> CQ WW WPX CW Contest 2013 UT5UGR SO-SB (80m) HP 1 place world.
> >>
> >>
> >> 73
> >> Frank
> >> W3LPL
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >>
> >> From: "W0MU Mike Fatchett" <w0mu@w0mu.com>
> >> To: cq-contest@contesting.com
> >> Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2015 4:48:34 PM
> >> Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Re. TO7A Debacle
> >>
> >> I wonder exactly what you have to do to be given a lifetime ban? This
> >> was no accident. It was a blatant attempt to defraud the entire contest
> >> and process.
> >>
> >> Some things are forgivable but this was planned and premeditated.
> >>
> >> This rotten apple should be tossed from the basket.
> >>
> >> Mike W0MU
> >>
> >>> On 5/11/2015 11:11 PM, donovanf@starpower.net wrote:
> >>> Hi Felipe,
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Now that we all know how the 2014 TO7A log was padded with fake
> >>> QSOs with stations who didn't send in their logs, the same pattern can
> >>> probably now be found in the public log for TO7A's "2013 North
> >>> American Record" as well.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Its not hard to find more strings of fake QSOs padded into the 2014
> >>> TO7A public log, here's just one example:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> QSO: 14079 CW 2014-11-30 0919 RN3GJ
> >>> QSO: 14079 CW 2014-11-30 0919 G3ILO
> >>> QSO: 14079 CW 2014-11-30 0920 G3LUW
> >>> QSO: 14079 CW 2014-11-30 0920 F6CEL
> >>> QSO: 14079 CW 2014-11-30 0921 9A2JG
> >>> QSO: 14079 CW 2014-11-30 0921 OK1AHG
> >>> QSO: 14079 CW 2014-11-30 0922 UT5URW
> >>> QSO: 14079 CW 2014-11-30 0922 SM5AOG
> >>> QSO: 14079 CW 2014-11-30 0923 HB9DAX
> >>> QSO: 14079 CW 2014-11-30 0923 IZ2DVI
> >>> QSO: 14079 CW 2014-11-30 0924 G0OGN
> >>> QSO: 14079 CW 2014-11-30 0924 IZ5AXA
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> 73
> >>> Frank
> >>> W3LPL
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>> From: "Felipe J. Hernández" <np4zet@gmail.com>
> >>> To: cq-contest@contesting.com
> >>> Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2015 1:41:17 AM
> >>> Subject: [CQ-Contest] Re. TO7A Debacle
> >>>
> >>> BIll,
> >>>
> >>> Dont feel too bad, he still has the North American record from last
> year
> >>> where he beat these other fine operators
> >>>
> >>> 1TO7A2013SO HP ALL13,765,575 7,916 161 564 48.0UT5UGR[Cert]
> >>> <http://cqww.com/certs/do_certificate.php?cl=TO7A&yr=2013&mode=CW
> >2V47T2014SO
> >>> HP ALL13,548,784 7,772 161 527 48.0N2NT[Cert]
> >>> <http://cqww.com/certs/do_certificate.php?cl=V47T&yr=2014&mode=CW
> >3VE2IM2014SO
> >>> HP ALL12,326,784 7,089 162 521 42.4VE3DZ[Cert]
> >>> <http://cqww.com/certs/do_certificate.php?cl=VE2IM&yr=2014&mode=CW
> >48P5A2013SO
> >>> HP ALL12,265,446 7,294 154 515 48.0W2SC
> >>>
> >>> Thats an amazing achievement...
> >>>
> >>> 73's
> >>>
> >>> Felipe
> >>>
> >>> Date: Mon, 11 May 2015 11:28:32 -0400
> >>> From: K4XS via CQ-Contest <cq-contest@contesting.com>
> >>> To: cq-contest@contesting.com
> >>> Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] TO7A debacle
> >>> Message-ID: <19da7e.5059234a.428224a0@aol.com>
> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
> >>>
> >>> Oh what a tangled web we weave, when we seek to deceive.
> >>>
> >>> Had he submitted a "clean" log he would have still swept first place
> for
> >>> assisted. Now, his call is being dragged through the mud. He's a great
> >>> op,
> >>> too bad.
> >>>
> >>> K4XS
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> CQ-Contest mailing list
> >>> CQ-Contest@contesting.com
> >>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> CQ-Contest mailing list
> >>> CQ-Contest@contesting.com
> >>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> CQ-Contest mailing list
> >> CQ-Contest@contesting.com
> >> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> CQ-Contest mailing list
> >> CQ-Contest@contesting.com
> >> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > CQ-Contest mailing list
> > CQ-Contest@contesting.com
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