I think you would have to look at the details re the really loud stations.
They probably do have good radial systems and also have particularly good
ground/water/soil for fairly long distances around the antenna.
Also, some of them probably have phased arrays of verticals.
----------------------------------
Wes Attaway - N5WA
Shreveport, LA
?\?\--------------------------------
________________________________
From: TowerTalk <towertalk-bounces@contesting.com> on behalf of Grant Saviers
<grants2@pacbell.net>
Sent: Friday, December 2, 2022 10:06:56 AM
To: 'tower and HF Antenna Construction Topics.' <towertalk@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] 16om vertical and the number of radials
"On the other hand, some really loud stations n 160m, say 5-10 db above
the crowd, use a massive amount of radials. This is for inland
stations, far away from salt water."
Curious minds would like to know which stations and how they were measured.
Besides the deep amateur literature and engineering about radials and
antenna performance, there is much from BCB broadcast antenna
performance history and engineering which is usually based on actual
field strength measurements. They all agree, there is no 5 to 10db
magic for "massive" radials.
Grant KZ1W
On 12/2/2022 07:06, Paul Christensen wrote:
> Jorge,
>
> N6LF's material is based largely on measured results in support of theory.
>
> Paul, W9AC
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TowerTalk <towertalk-bounces@contesting.com> On Behalf Of Jorge Diez -
> CX6VM
> Sent: Friday, December 2, 2022 9:57 AM
> To: Paul Christensen <w9ac@arrl.net>
> Cc: Ignacy Misztal <no9e@arrl.net>; tower and HF Antenna Construction Topics.
> <towertalk@contesting.com>
> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] 16om vertical and the number of radials
>
> I think Paul wants to know the "real" situation, not theory. He want to know
> if the theory is 100% in accordance with real big stations with many radials
> on the antennas
>
> 73,
> Jorge
> CX6VM/CW5W
>
> El vie, 2 dic 2022 a las 11:50, Paul Christensen (<w9ac@arrl.net>) escribió:
>
>> Ignacy,
>>
>> There's a lot of published information that addresses your question.
>> Some material is rooted in commercial applications and even more in
>> the amateur literature where modeling is compared with measured results.
>>
>> As a starting point, I would carefully read Rudy Stevens' material:
>>
>> https://www.antennasbyn6lf.com/design_of_radial_ground_systems/
>>
>> Paul, W9AC
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: TowerTalk <towertalk-bounces@contesting.com> On Behalf Of Ignacy
>> Misztal
>> Sent: Friday, December 2, 2022 9:25 AM
>> To: tower and HF Antenna Construction Topics.
>> <towertalk@contesting.com>
>> Subject: [TowerTalk] 16om vertical and the number of radials
>>
>> Do more radials on a 160m vertical bring more improvements than shown
>> by simulation?
>>
>> Most simulations show that going above 32 radials on 160m brings
>> minimal improvement, say 1 db to 2 max. Even for low angle signals.
>>
>> On the other hand, some really loud stations n 160m, say 5-10 db above
>> the crowd, use a massive amount of radials. This is for inland
>> stations, far away from salt water.
>>
>> Is there any discrepancy between modeling and real life performance
>> with the number of radials? Does adding radials beyond 32 help much?
>> Any real stories?
>>
>> Ignacy NO9E
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>>
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>>
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>
>
> --
> 73,
> Jorge
> CX6VM/CW5W
> _______________________________________________
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