Great info, Steve. Couple of questions:
1. Does your recommendation to solder the center conductor of crimp
connectors apply only to UHF connectors, or also to N connectors? I used to
try to solder them through the tiny positioning hole in the pin, but gave up
on that and only crimp now.
2. A little OT, but regarding your advice to weatherproof N connectors, I've
always done that, but I'm about to install a Hustler G7-144 2m antenna on
top of my tower and the instructions explicitly say not to apply any tape or
weatherproofing to the N connector because the antenna is designed to shed
water around the connector, and sealing this area will cause the antenna
retain water. Instructions here:
https://static.dxengineering.com/global/images/instructions/hsr-g7-144.pdf).
Living in New England I'm skeptical about this, especially for an antenna
that's 115 feet in the air. What would be your (or any one else out there)
advice? Should I obey the K7LXC prime directive -- "Always follow the
manufacturer's instructions" -- or ignore the instructions and weatherproof
the connector?
73, Dick WC1M
-----Original Message-----
From: Stephen Davis <sdavis@davisrf.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 24, 2018 1:48 PM
To: towertalk@contesting.com
Subject: [TowerTalk] Connectors, Installation, Bury-Flex, etc., DAVIS RF
Hello T-Talkers,
Just some feedback ref. some observations I see here.
First, thanks to several responses today and yesterday ref. Bury-Flex and
our connectors. I am a cable design engineer of specialty and custom
control, monitoring, RF, etc. cables.
Bury-Flex is a highly lauded/effective low loss buriable cable that I
designed around 15 years ago for not only the ham market, but use by
Lockheed Martin, FAA and NASA (in their Cape Can. ground station). I use a
specialized PE outer jacket that is impervious to UV, water, and certain
chemicals (I also use that same jacket for control cable that we supply to a
septic flow meter company, thus it is submerged in septage to connect with
the submerged in "crap" water flow meters. I sometimes refer to that
cable as our " Shxtty Cable" HI
As the late Press Jones , bless his heart , once said, "imitation is the
best form of flattery".. Bury Flex T has been imitated by at least several
entities.
Connector comments: Yes, I agree completely , and so do marine electronics
engineers, that electronic installations, can be completely effective using
crimp connectors for the braid, but as several pointed out here, despite
high quality crimp connectors, the procedure is to solder the center
conductor.
Ref. soldering connectors shields of Bury-Flex T to male UHF connectors (aka
PL 259's): Somewhat often I see the comment, as I did today, that the
second/aluminum shield makes it difficult to solder the shield to the PL 259
. Please keep in mind that you can cut that alum. shield back , just a
fraction of an inch to just expose the braid shield (which on Bury-Flex T is
tinned to both make it easier to solder, and to make if more resistant to
copper oxidation (which should not occur if you seal the connector to the
cable properly.another subject). By cutting back the Alum. shield, you are
not degrading the shielding effectiveness because that whole portion of the
cable itself is inside the connector body which in and of itself is a 100%
shield. So, "forget" the aluminum and you will not need a high wattage
iron or gun. Hope that helps
As an aside: connectors: Nickel plate vs. Silver plate. First, ANY
connector outside needs to have properly sealed covering , over the
connector and back onto at least an inch of the cable. Even N connectors
that have "weatherproof seals" need to be water proofed (vs. "weather or
moisture proof) Secondly , if not water proofed, a silver plated
connector , will conduct through the silver oxide that will form, whereas
Nickel oxide will not conduct.
The comment ref Heat Shrink: Yes, this is one of several options to water
proof connectors to cable. But please note that heat shrink (HS) comes in
several types. THe type you want to use is
"adhesive lined" HS. Heat it, from center to the right end, then to the
left end, uniformly shrink onto the cable and connector and then watch for
just the slight beginning of a clear "ooze" that is seen coming out each end
of the HS. This is the adhesive.
If you use any type of waterproofing, where the connector front end
attaches to a female connector (any type female UHF, N, etc), you need to be
sure that the exposed threads on the female are completely engulfed,
waterproofed, by whatever waterproofing material you are using, HS or water
pressure resistant tape.
Crimp vs. Solder: Ok , yes, this topic has been revisited numerous times on
TTAlk over the many years. This is just my opinion based on a lot of use
of both methods over many years and seeing the need for solid quality crimp
connectors for use field installations where electric irons, or butane
irons are not used, or in the bilge of a boat, or up on the tower: a
quality crimp connector, properly installed with a proper install tool, is
as good as any quality solder-on connector, from both a mechanical and
electrical standpoint. And in fact, how many times do you see (as in this
recent posting) or yourself feel, that soldering is not one's best skill, or
ability to tolerate the process.
Just my opinion and I don't think it necessary to open up a whole
reiteration of this subject, as all that pro and con is in the TT
archives... :=)
Lastly, Steve, L7LXC, has ok'd the following: Three years ago I set up a
totally separate co.: separate staff, location, and no financial
relationship with DAVIS RF, that sells many types of
rope for numerous applications, to include all of the commonly used sizes
for wire antennas, mast supports, certain tower supports , as well as a
special 1/2" rope for gin poles, with a tensile strength of 7500 lbs. Other
ropes for towing, marine, anchoring, hoisting/pulling, sail shades, etc..
All Made in USA and you will not find these high quality ropes at lower
prices anywhere (except perhaps based on a fire sale). DAVIS ROPE AND CABLE
ASSEMBLY Co. , LLC website: DavisRopeAndCable.com (the cable
assembly refers only to cable assembly work that we do, only for commercial
entities. Our other co., DAVIS RF, will do ham cable assemblies based on
Milspec procedures, and the labor cost will be higher than most other ham
assembly co's.)
Back to the rope co.: We provide free application consultation. You tell us
what you are doing, the approx. lengths and load factor (we can usually
figure the load factor for you, with your details provided).
As with our affiliate DAVIS RF, the rope company has been very successful
and adheres tightly to our devotion, as many of you know, to Customer
Satisfaction, quality product and price effectiveness.
Feel free to contact me directly with any questions about products or
product technical aspects, FOR EITHER of our two companies. If contacting
me for specs, technical or pricing, probably best to contact me directly vs.
using bandwidth on this T Talk website. Tnx guys !!
73, Cheers, Steve Davis, K1PEK
sdavis@DavisRF.com
Direct to me: 978 369 1738: 6 Days Mon-Sat. by phone, 0900 - 2100 EST,
Sundays: refreshing my sanity, tnx, but emails welcome, answered
occasionally on Sun, or by Monday.
On Jun 24, 2018, at 12:00 PM, towertalk-request@contesting.com wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2018 12:25:47 -0400
> From: "William J. Nicosia" <WB2ZKX@optimum.net>
> To: towertalk@contesting.com
> Subject: [TowerTalk] UHF (PL259) Connector Supplier
> Message-ID: <8128a3d4-42c5-1035-da01-e1eddb2ce307@optimum.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>
> ??? ??? ??? These are my choices for connectors/cable, no failures
> since 2009:
>
> ??? ??? ??? RG-213, Davis RF, Marine Grade, White Jacket.
>
> ??? ??? ??? UHF/PL-259, RF Parts Co., Crimp Type.
>
> ??? ??? ??? Cable Prep Tools, DX Engineering Kit.
>
> ??? ??? ??? Cush Craft, PVC Push-On Boots
>
> ??? ??? ??? My technique is to crimp the braid ferrule with the proper
> tool and solder the tip (no crimp). If you can find them install the
> Cush Craft boot first. ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? Anybody who knows a
> supplier of these, let me know. Finally, solder the tip. Fill the pin
> on the connector.
>
> ??? ??? ??? No failures caused by bad connector or cable prep or
> corrosion since 2009. Adding some dielectric grease to the connector
> threads is not a bad ??? ??? ??? ??? idea either.
>
> ??? ??? ??? Bill, W2ZKX
>
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
> https://www.avg.com
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2018 12:28:27 -0400
> From: Edward Mccann <edwmccann@yahoo.com>
> To: "William J. Nicosia" <WB2ZKX@optimum.net>
> Cc: towertalk@contesting.com
> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] UHF (PL259) Connector Supplier
> Message-ID: <E01B6496-C337-441F-B46E-2075E42E86CB@yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Bill:
> Is the dielectric grease conducting or insulating?
> And your basis for use? Ease of removal?
> Your comments welcome.
> 73
> AG6CX
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Jun 23, 2018, at 12:25 PM, William J. Nicosia <WB2ZKX@optimum.net>
wrote:
>>
>> These are my choices for connectors/cable, no failures since
2009:
>>
>> RG-213, Davis RF, Marine Grade, White Jacket.
>>
>> UHF/PL-259, RF Parts Co., Crimp Type.
>>
>> Cable Prep Tools, DX Engineering Kit.
>>
>> Cush Craft, PVC Push-On Boots
>>
>> My technique is to crimp the braid ferrule with the proper
tool and solder the tip (no crimp). If you can find them install the Cush
Craft boot first. Anybody who knows a supplier of these,
let me know. Finally, solder the tip. Fill the pin on the connector.
>>
>> No failures caused by bad connector or cable prep or corrosion
since 2009. Adding some dielectric grease to the connector threads is not a
bad idea either.
>>
>> Bill, W2ZKX
>>
>>
>> ---
>> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
>> https://www.avg.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TowerTalk mailing list
>> TowerTalk@contesting.com
>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2018 10:00:01 -0700
> From: "Jim Thomson" <jim.thom@telus.net>
> To: <towertalk@contesting.com>
> Subject: [TowerTalk] UHF (PL259) soldered center with braid crimp
> Message-ID: <26945647D3A74C3680807FC28FC612F3@DESKTOPSV54DBH>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2018 09:16:06 -0400
> From: "Bob Shohet, KQ2M" <kq2m@kq2m.com>
> To: "Jim W7RY" <jimw7ry@gmail.com>, <towertalk@contesting.com>,
> "Martin Sole" <hs0zed@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] UHF (PL259) soldered center with braid crimp
> or crimp-crimp, supply?
>
> <His prices are positively OBSCENE!
>
>
> <Bob KQ2M
>
>
> ## His prices are for packages of 10 .... not just one. Some of his
> items are for packages of 6. They are cheap.
> The dx eng version is same price..but comes in packages of 6.
>
> Jim VE7RF
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2018 11:00:50 -0700 (PDT)
> From: terry burge <ki7m@comcast.net>
> To: Martin Sole <hs0zed@gmail.com>, towertalk@contesting.com
> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] UHF (PL259) soldered center with braid crimp
> or crimp-crimp, supply?
> Message-ID: <1446042575.181800.1529776850879@connect.xfinity.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> Hi Martin and the group,
>
> I've tried many types of solder on PL-259's and I like the gold plated
tips. I've had a couple of the more standard silver ones that broke out the
back ring on the screw on cover piece. I thought they were Amphenol but that
may be wrong. But now I stay with the gold center conductor type. They also
seem easier to solder on. Which matters to me especially since my ability to
solder on coax connectors could be called 'suspect'. I can really make a
mess of them sometimes without trying.
>
> Terry
> KI7M
>
> (now back to 10 and 6 meters for some fun)
>> On June 23, 2018 at 4:41 AM Martin Sole <hs0zed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Can anyone recommend a UHF male plug with either a soldered or crimp
>> centre and a crimp braid connection suitable for RG213/RG8 cable.
>> Supplier and Part num would be ideal.
>>
>> Preferably no pot metal or re-cycled saucepans :)
>>
>> Thanks
>> Martin, HS0ZED
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TowerTalk mailing list
>> TowerTalk@contesting.com
>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2018 11:25:50 -0700
> From: Grant Saviers <grants2@pacbell.net>
> To: towertalk@contesting.com
> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] UHF (PL259) Connector Supplier
> Message-ID: <5B2E90AE.4010800@pacbell.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>
> I would add the following
>
> Marine grade 213 has the advantage over other 213 of a tinned braid
> which helps with soldering. I have some 20 years old that loss tests
> show good as new. But it is still RG8 losses with the solid dielectric.
>
> Davis Buryflex and DXengineering 400MAX (just installed 500') are my
> favorites (except hardline) for lower loss. I don't like the LMR or
> 9913 jackets. Now replacing 9913 installed when Buryflex was out of
> stock. With the heat sinking of the foil layer, it is hard , but
> possible to solder the braid to PL with a 250 watt Weller gun. Forget
> about it outside. For foil plus braid over foam, crimping is better
> IMO for the shield and I agree soldering for the center conductor to
> eliminate one moisture path and to preserve the pin geometry.
>
> I like to adhesive filled heat shrink seal the cable jacket to PL
> shank. Heating the PL with the heat gun prior to sliding on the HS
> insures the adhesive bonds. However, some crimp PL's have a very
> short shank for the heat shrink.
>
> I try to avoid SO239's on anything outside as have never found a good
> way to make the PL-SO connection really watertight and few SO's on
> commercial gear are sealed well enough on the flange anyway. For
> entry to J-boxes, chokes, baluns, etc. my preference is watertight glands
the
> right diameter for the coax. All beam chokes have the feedpoint choke
> done this way to avoid any use of connectors out on booms where they
> can't be accessed without a lot of work. If PL-SO connections are
> required, eg lightning arresters, they are inside an enclosure.
>
> All connector to connector outside joints use the commercially proven
> Commscope/Heliax tape/butyl/tape sealing technique. My commercial
> tower guy then sprays 2 or 3 coats of outdoor clear acrylic over the
> outer tape layer. There are about 8 PL-barrel-PL uses from a $15 kit.
> I only use Amphenol barrels after bad experiences with others.
>
> The suppliers mentioned all seem to have quality PL's. For me, all
> hardline uses DIN's where possible.
>
> And I've proved that poorly crimped connections up 100' get to be the
> worlds most expensive connectors. Also verified it is important to
> keep connectors free of residual cable bending forces and wind or
> rotator induced motions.
>
> Grant KZ1W
>
> On 6/23/2018 9:25 AM, William J. Nicosia wrote:
>> These are my choices for connectors/cable, no failures
>> since 2009:
>>
>> RG-213, Davis RF, Marine Grade, White Jacket.
>>
>> UHF/PL-259, RF Parts Co., Crimp Type.
>>
>> Cable Prep Tools, DX Engineering Kit.
>>
>> Cush Craft, PVC Push-On Boots
>>
>> My technique is to crimp the braid ferrule with the proper
>> tool and solder the tip (no crimp). If you can find them install the
>> Cush Craft boot first. Anybody who knows a
>> supplier of these, let me know. Finally, solder the tip. Fill the pin
>> on the connector.
>>
>> No failures caused by bad connector or cable prep or
>> corrosion since 2009. Adding some dielectric grease to the connector
>> threads is not a bad idea either.
>>
>> Bill, W2ZKX
>>
>>
>> ---
>> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
>> https://www.avg.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TowerTalk mailing list
>> TowerTalk@contesting.com
>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
> _______________________________________________
> TowerTalk mailing list
> TowerTalk@contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of TowerTalk Digest, Vol 186, Issue 19
> ******************************************
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