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Re: Topband: 5/8 wavelength vertical is mo betta than shorter versions??

To: "'James Rodenkirch'" <rodenkirch_llc@msn.com>, <topband@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: Topband: 5/8 wavelength vertical is mo betta than shorter versions??
From: "Charlie Cunningham" <charlie-cunningham@nc.rr.com>
Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2013 20:21:38 -0400
List-post: <topband@contesting.com">mailto:topband@contesting.com>
BTW, Jim

Nothing wrong with a 1/4 wave ground-plane! I've done really well on 40, 80 and 
160 with quarter-wave verticals ( if you're willing to accept the 160 inverted 
L as a "quarter wave vertical".)  I am - the models say it has comparable gain 
and radiation patterns. ( also ran elevated resonant radials under the 160 inv 
L.

Also,  for a while I had both a vertical dipole and a 1/4 wave GP here for 40m. 
The GP was very competitive with the 1/2 wave 40m vertical diple on long-paths 
into Asia. ( I could switch back and forth between the two antennas. The GP 
wasn't very high - abt 12'.

My 80m GP with 3 elevated resonant radials  is an excellent WW DX antenna, but 
it's also a really good DX antenna on 30m, where it's approaching 270 degrees 
in length, or 3/4 wavelength. The EZNEC model show that it has a fairly high 
angle radiation pattern - approaching 45 degrees elevation, but its gain is a 
little over 6dBi on 30m, so even at lower angles it's a pretty decent radiator. 
Hears pretty well too, on 30m, but not as good as te KAZ loop in directions 
away from the null in the KAZ loop's cardioid pattern.

73,
Charlie, K4OTV


-----Original Message-----
From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces@contesting.com] On Behalf Of James 
Rodenkirch
Sent: Saturday, September 07, 2013 7:25 PM
To: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Topband: 5/8 wavelength vertical is mo betta than shorter versions??




I saw someone post a "my 5/8 wavelength vertical really outperformed my 1/4 
wavelength vertical" a day or two ago.
I kinda wondered about that (I've "heard" a 5/8 wavelength is mo betta) so I 
did a little digging around.
From a K3LC paper on tall verticals - 
http://www.arrl.org/files/file/QEX_Next_Issue/May-Jun_2011/QEX_5_11_Christman.pdf
 - I found the below:

Performance comparison between vertical antenna systems of varying height, when 
operating on 80 meters at a frequency of 3650 kHz. The monopoles are made from 
no. 10 AWG wire, with a ground screen composed of 60 buried no. 14 AWG radials 
(radial length = monopole height). All conductors are aluminum, and the soil is 
“average” (conductivity = 0.005 siemens/meter and dielectric constant = 13).
¼ λ System                               3⁄8 λ System                  ½ λ 
System                   5⁄8 λ SystemMonopole Height and Radial Length (ft) 
67.368                                      101.05                            
134.74                            168.42Input Impedance (Ω) 41.4 + j 24.4       
                       229 + j 605                     2324 – j 1425            
       86.1 – j 479SWR (50 Ω ref.) 1.75                                         
 36.8                               64.0                                 
55.5Peak Gain (dBi) and Take-off Angle (°)0.39 at 24.7                          
     0.79 at 21.7                    0.96 at 17.6                      0.42 at 
13.3Gain (dBi) at 5° Take-off Angle–5.21                                       
–4.34                              –3.42                                
–2.81Gain (dBi) at 10° Take-off Angle –1.70                                     
  –0.91                              –0.14                                
0.06Gain (dBi) at 15° Take-off Angle –0.32                                      
 0.35                                0.85                                 
0.34Gain (dBi) at 20o Take-off Angle 0.25                                       
 0.76                                 0.89                                
–0.63Half Power Beamwidth (°) 43.7                                        38.0  
                               29.0                                 
20.3Efficiency (%) 33.8                                        34.3             
                    29.6                                 29.8

Performance comparison between vertical antenna systems of varying height, when 
operating on 40 meters at a frequency of 7150 kHz.
The monopoles are made from no. 10 AWG wire, with a ground screen composed of 
60 buried no. 14 AWG radials (radial length =monopole height). All conductors 
are aluminum, and the soil is “average” (conductivity = 0.005 siemens/meter and 
dielectric constant = 13).
¼ λ System                   3⁄8 λ System                                       
½ λ System                                    5⁄8 λ SystemMonopole Height and 
Radial Length (ft) 34.391                           51.586                      
                           68.781                                               
 85.976Input Impedance (Ω) 39.9 + j 25.0                   235 + j 570          
                              1937 – j 1247                                     
  81.9 – j 436SWR (50 Ω ref.) 1.81                                32.5          
                                          54.8                                  
                 48.7Peak Gain (dBi) and Take-off Angle (°) 0.15 at 26.2        
             0.68 at 23.3                                        0.89 at 19.1   
                                      0.68 at 14.5Gain (dBi) at 5° Take-off 
Angle–6.15                              –5.15                                   
               –4.13                                                  –3.12Gain 
(dBi) at 10° Take-off Angle –2.38                              –1.44            
                                      –0.56                                     
             0.08Gain (dBi) at 15° Take-off Angle –0.82                         
      0.02                                                     0.66             
                                     0.67Gain (dBi) at 20° Take-off Angle –0.11 
                              0.59                                              
       0.88                                                  0.04Half Power 
Beamwidth (°) 44.1                                 39.3                         
                            30.7                                                
  22.3Efficiency (%) 31.9                                 34.0                  
                                   30.4                                         
         31.7
Performance comparison between vertical antenna systems of varying height, when 
operating on 20 meters at a frequency of14.175 MHz. The monopoles are made from 
no. 10 AWG wire, with a ground screen composed of 60 buried no. 14 AWG radials 
(radial length = monopole height). All conductors are aluminum, and the soil is 
“average” (conductivity = 0.005 siemens/meter and dielectric constant = 13).
¼ λ System                       3⁄8 λ System                            ½ λ 
System                      5⁄8 λ SystemMonopole Height and Radial Length (ft) 
17.347                               26.020                                     
 34.694                              43.367Input Impedance (Ω) 39.0 + j28.4     
                  247 + j536                                 1595 – j1070       
               77.4 – j392SWR (50 Ω ref.) 1.97                                  
28.3                                           46.3                             
    41.8Peak Gain (dBi) and Take-off Angle (°) 0.29 at 27.1                     
  0.91 at 24.3                                1.16 at 19.9                      
1.21 at 15.0Gain (dBi) at 5° Take-off Angle –6.35                               
 –5.28                                          –4.18                           
     –2.86Gain (dBi) at 10° Take-off Angle –2.46                                
–1.45                                          –0.49                            
    0.48Gain (dBi) at 15° Take-off Angle –0.8                                 1 
0.1                                           1 0.84                            
   1.21Gain (dBi) at 20° Take-off Angle –0.04                               
0.76                                             1.16                           
       0.70Half Power Beamwidth (°) 44.4                                 40.4   
                                          31.5                                  
22.8Efficiency (%) 32.9                                 36.3                    
                          32.9                                 34.7
The above modeling results just don't support that contention/posit so I'm 
wondering what else comes in to play that could lead folks to love the 5/8 
wavelength vertical over a shorter version, regardless of frequency?  I don't 
see one performance comparison that supports that claim.  I'm not saying the 
"claiming person" isn't correct but....I don't see how!
Help - what am I missing here?
72, Jim Rodenkirch K9JWV
                                          
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