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Re: [TenTec] Electric safety

To: <geraldj@weather.net>
Subject: Re: [TenTec] Electric safety
From: "DAVID HELLER" <dtx@verizon.net>
Reply-to: Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment <tentec@contesting.com>
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 01:17:36 -0500
List-post: <tentec@contesting.com">mailto:tentec@contesting.com>
I guess many of us working around varied voltages have made contact 
somewhere along the line.  Just before my draft number came up I didn't 
start the last term in school and took a job in an electronics factory.  By 
virtue of a few years EE undergraduate and some radio experience I started 
as final inspector, duties being to make sure the things were working, 
correct any mis-wiring, replace any new-defective components, make final 
alignment and test.  Only once did I get hit, and it was with about 600 vdc. 
I pulled a metal tube out of a chassis not knowing that some girl on the 
line had wired a B+ line to pin 1 (always ground in an octal receiving 
tube). I didn't manage to get the tube out;  the entire unit, about 100 lbs, 
left the bench for the floor about where I had landed. No real damage to the 
radio or me, but I did take a short break.  Put it back on the bench, 
corrected the wiring, got it ready to ship and just kept going. I was more 
resilient those days than I am now.

Separate grounding wire in metal conduit?  Absolutely.  NEC allows a lot of 
things that bother me, and leaves a few things out that bother me.

I get the impression that you've had the same ex;perience as I - most cases 
are settled after deposition, the negligence being so evident.  The real fun 
came from the cases where some lawyer thought he could show me up on 
cross-examination.  Not once did the lawyer win.  Dave, K3TX
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dr. Gerald N. Johnson" <geraldj@weather.net>
To: "DAVID HELLER" <dtx@verizon.net>
Cc: "Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment" <tentec@contesting.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2010 10:29 PM
Subject: Re: [TenTec] Electric safety


> On Thu, 2010-02-18 at 21:53 -0500, DAVID HELLER wrote:
>> I too do electrical power consulting work, and, like Jerry, have been on
>> cases involving poorly-trained people working on hot stuff - and it's 
>> never
>> fun to reconstruct the blame where severe injuries or fatalities are
>> involved.
>
> Sometimes its not been the poorly trained, its been the poorly
> maintained tool or work place and the deceased didn't do anything wrong.
> I have testified in depositions (involving other products problems as
> well as fires accused to be of electrical origin) about 200 times and in
> court about 75 times. I think I have given up that line of work, I hope.
>>
>> Between graduation and grad school I did a stint as Jr.Engineer for an
>> electric utility - and whether beginner or old timer safety was preached 
>> day
>> in, day out.
>
> My first job out of college was at Collins in the BC and high power
> transmitter department. We kept test voltages under 100 KV peak and
> radio operating voltages down to 60 KV peak. And we spent much time
> discussing safety and worked safely. The Collins 821A-1 was pretty good
> though a couple of us found 900 volts where it was a hazard without
> protection. Burned a hole in my left index finger all the way to the
> bone and raised the pitch of my voice about two octaves for a couple
> days. My left elbow was grounded.
>>
>> Richards' laughing friends are the stupid ones. Do it yourself is fine 
>> for
>> many things, but not power-electric.  I hate these home-mechanic books
>> explaining how simple it is to add an outlet, etc.  Fine IF and ONLY IF 
>> you
>> have had the equivalent of an apprenticeship - or degrees in EE with a 
>> bit
>> of hands-on experience - or -  adequate fire and life/health insurance.
>
> With care its not all that hard, if you believe ALL the book tells you
> about connections and wire colors but even electricians some times don't
> understand the need for separate ground wires since by their
> understanding of circuits the safety ground adds nothing to the circuit
> function or safety. Just that when the metal case of the tool is
> grounded to the return wire (neutral) and that wire breaks the tool case
> is now at 120 volts with the impedance of the motor in series. When it
> only takes 50 milliamps to put the heart into fibrillation, the
> impedance of a 7 or 15 amp series motor has no effect on the current
> through the heart.
>>
>> Even with supposedly qualified electricians doing the work I've seen too
>> many installations that  are booby traps, and too many of them have been
>> sprung before I get to see them.
>>
>> Suggestions to all:  two things to avoid:  adapters for 3-prong 120 plugs 
>> to
>> old style 2-prong (ground terminal cut off is same thing), and the
>> all-too-common in residential construction: blue plastic junction boxes.
>
> I call those adapters "ungrounding adapters." And I live in an old house
> with two wire wiring. I use them on occasion, but I know the condition
> of the tool I'm using them with, usually is also double insulated and in
> a dry place. There are three wire outlets here, but only the circuits
> I've added for computers and hamshack in the basement and for work in
> the garage have proper grounds.
>
> Unfortunately plastic for junction boxes and conduit is approved by the
> NEC. I prefer steel for junction boxes and for all wiring to be in steel
> conduit. The makers of plastics have convinced the NEC committees that
> plastic holds in arcs and holds out fires adequately and certainly in
> wet applications plastic can last longer. In steel conduit I want a
> separate copper safety ground conductor in all pipes and all circuits
> and that can't be left out of plastic. I don't want to depend on the
> conduit connectors for my safety.
>>
>> Will Jerry back me up?
>> Dave K3TX
>
> 73, Jerry, K0CQ
> 

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