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Re: [RFI] pleasant surprise today from Solar Edge

To: Cortland Richmond <ka5s@earthlink.net>, "rfi@contesting.com" <rfi@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [RFI] pleasant surprise today from Solar Edge
From: "Hare, Ed W1RFI" <w1rfi@arrl.org>
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2020 14:56:31 +0000
List-post: <mailto:rfi@contesting.com>
It is far from that simple, Cortland.  "Enforcement" is a very broad term that 
can range from the advisory letters routinely mailed by the FCC in response to 
complaints about harmful interference to the very rare "real" enforcement 
actions such as a Citation or a Forfeiture.  There are a lot of reasons for the 
"reluctance."  Let me talk about this under the  umbrella of our arrangement 
with the FCC regarding interference to amateur radio.

The FCC can and does send advisory letters to companies or individuals alleged 
to be causing harmful interference. This can be done under the authority of FCC 
staff, such as Laura Smith, with no higher-level approvals needed.  To do so, 
however, the FCC staffer must reasonable believe that the interference meets 
the criteria for harmful interference, that reasonable efforts were made to 
resolve the interference directly and that the correct source has been 
identified.  In cases involving amateur radio, this is easy for the FCC because 
they ask ARRL to help make those determinations, which W1VLF does with a really 
good track record. The FCC has sent out hundreds of these letters, so I'd 
hardly use the word "reluctance" to describe the overall program.

The FCC can and does sent out advisory letters based on a reasonable report. It 
cannot, however, take any further enforcement action based solely on a report. 
It needs its own finding of fact, by FCC staff, that a rules violation is 
taking place.  This typically would mean that the interference problem needs to 
be investigated by an agent of the FCC field office.  This crosses departmental 
boundaries within the FCC, making this a bit more difficult to set into motion. 
 It also does require approval higher up the FCC chain than a staff-level 
person writing and advisory letter.  The FCC has but back on field offices 
immensely, so it generally does not sent agents out for anything less than 
interference to emergency communications or critical infrastructure.  This may 
mean that if the Enforcement Bureau is able to refer a case, the field office 
is more than likely going to say that it will investigate that amateur case the 
next time it is in the area for another reason, if time is avail
 able.  I, too, am reluctant to want to send cases to the field, knowing the 
inordinate delays that are to be expected.  The FCC EB staff share the same 
feeling; they really do want to resolve cases, and the field-agent option is 
not the most efficient and effective way to do that.  It is not a reluctance of 
wanting to fix problems; it is a reluctance of not wanting to drop cases into a 
hole that they sometimes never come out of, even though doing so would get a 
case off of their plate and onto someone else's.  The reputation of the FCC EB 
staff as bureaucrats is very much unwarranted and they are not reluctant at all.

Neither are MOST of the field agents, from my experience, although I have run 
across a few that seem to fit the "bureaucrat" description.   So, reluctance is 
not really generally the issue with the field offices, either. Many of them 
share our frustration that they do not have the resources to do what they want 
to do, which is to resolve cases.   But it gets a bit murkier.  In my 
experience, there is a wide range of ability in the skill set of the 
field-office agents.  I have seen some not able to find an S9 noise source, to 
proclaim that there is noise, but it is general in nature, so it is not harmful 
interference as defined by its rules.  That really happened involving as 
utility in Texas.  In another case, an agent identified over 50 noise sources 
and told an electric utility to fix them all.   This, too, was a case in Texas 
-- the same case as the first, just with a different agent.  If there is 
"reluctance" to send cases into that uncertain environment, that is very 
appropriate
  and in part promoted by ARRL not wanting to see cases deemed not to be 
harmful interference because once that determination is made, it can be a 
tremendous amount of work to get it changed.

Last on this list comes "real" enforcement.  If all of the hurdles described 
above have been cleared, the FCC can move to an actual enforcement action.  
This is not approved at the staff level, nor by senior management of the FCC, 
but goes all the way to the FCC Commission itself.  Naturally, this is not an 
easy task, as the documentation must be impeccable and written in a way that 
the less-technical people on the Commission can understand it. Even at that, 
the action taken by the Commission is often going to be very much influenced by 
politics, even if in a bipartisan way.  Even I have reluctance about trying to 
send cases into that crap-shoot environment, as should every ham reading this.

For these reasons, it is always FAR better to try to resolve cases locally, 
without the help of the FCC EB staff.  If the EB staff do get involved, it is 
generally much better to work with the responsible parties than to be in any 
rush to send cases to field offices and then, if unresolved, onto the 
Commission.  Even that first letter from the FCC may get the company lawyer 
involved, which has been known to put an end to any cooperation at the 
company's staff level.  ARRL then has the difficult task of convincing the 
company lawyer that ARRL is not looking for anything other than fixing the 
problem and that if the problem is fixed, ARRL expects that the case will be 
closed without further action.  I don't want these companies to think that the 
FCC is "reluctant" do to enforcement. I do want them to think that actual FCC 
enforcement is a nightmare for ALL parties involved, so the best approach is to 
resolve a problem through mutual cooperation and use what is learned to make 
equipment
  and process improvements that make it far less likely that there will be 
interference in the future.

Ed Hare, W1RFI
ARRL Lab




-----Original Message-----
From: RFI <rfi-bounces+w1rfi=arrl.org@contesting.com> On Behalf Of Cortland 
Richmond
Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2020 11:27 PM
To: rfi@contesting.com
Subject: Re: [RFI] pleasant surprise today from Solar Edge

Our problem in such cases is still the Commission's reluctance to enforce the 
rules against causing harmful interference regardless of the maximum permitted 
level of emissions.

I note that Class A ballasts are still being sold without even a label they're 
not to be used in residences.

Cortland, KA5S


On 9/24/2020 10:50 AM, Hare, Ed W1RFI wrote:
> We have come a long way, but still have a ways to go. Fortunately, we are 
> dealing with a company that is holding space for all of this and willing to 
> work towards better and better solutions.
>
> The initial installations were pretty bad.  They simply ran a single wire 
> between anything that was series strung, which formed a giant loop.  The FCC 
> rules on emission control ONLY conducted emissions ON THE AC MAINS, so any 
> noise present on that loop did not have a specific limit.  So, the early 
> systems complied with the letter of the law.FCC has rarely been required to 
> even assess an individual circumstance as harmful interference, and when it 
> has, that assessment has been all over the map.  I do know they will consider 
> the level of interference, the frequency occupancy, a comparison of that 
> level to median values of man-made noise (typically S6+ on lower bands, 
> btw...), whether the amateur can make use of frequency agility, how often it 
> occurs, time of day and possibly even the phase of the moons orbiting Saturn.
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