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Re: [CQ-Contest] WW-Digi Contest -- Rule Clarification

To: WW3S <ww3s@zoominternet.net>
Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] WW-Digi Contest -- Rule Clarification
From: David Gilbert <xdavid@cis-broadband.com>
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2019 18:07:51 -0700
List-post: <mailto:cq-contest@contesting.com>

Well, I admit I didn't know that.  If that's the case, it would certainly make for an interesting situation in a contest.  And if everyone can rather easily have that functional capability, I'm not even sure I have a problem with it.  Given the way FT8/4 works, I'm not even sure it would increase the QRM.  You'd still have the same number of callers.

It would certainly add an additional degree of operator focus to the game, and as Randy says in a different post, the new digital modes are probably going to redefine how we look at some things.

Thanks es 73,
Dave   AB7E


On 8/6/2019 4:26 PM, WW3S wrote:
You don’t need multiple rigs...or multiple copies of the software to do it....one copy 
of the software will do it, if set for dxpedition mode, I think the most I saw was 5 at one 
time...3 at a time is usually 3 different TX audio streams, when you go more than 3 
you’ll get 2 stations on the same audio freq, one getting a RR73 and one getting a 
signal report....

Sent from my iPad

On Aug 6, 2019, at 5:19 PM, David Gilbert <xdavid@cis-broadband.com> wrote:


Well, I've read the contest rules several times, and they don't specifically make the 
same "one signal per band" limitation for single op that they do for multiop.  
I agree that it is assumed, but again ... the rules don't specifically rule it out and we 
all know from past experience that loopholes tend to be exploited.

And I am absolutely certain that these were three separate QSOs with three 
different stations.  I should have taken a screenshot.  The contacts were 
within the same 15 second window, with different stations, and with different 
signal reports.  And as I said, it happened again a short while later with two 
completely different stations.  These were not images, and they were not the 
staggered transmissions that we can do while overlapping more than one contact.

I'm pretty sure you can run multiple instances of WSJT-X as long as you specify 
different rigs for each.  If you check out 5T5PA's page at QRZ.com you can 
clearly see that he is a pretty smart guy and that he has multiple rigs.  
Probably the simplest way would be to use three instances of WSJT-X driving the 
same sound card and talking to three rigs via different com ports.

Regarding DXCC eligibility, what I saw did not appear to be any more automated than 
normal FT8 contacts.  They didn't need to be.  If he called CQ on three different 
frequencies, WSJT-X handles everything from that point on if he clicked the "Call 
1st" box.  He would still have to manually enable the next CQ's, but that wouldn't 
be difficult to quickly do three times.

I think it's all kind of clever, but I wouldn't want to see it in the contest.

73,
Dave   AB7E


On 8/6/2019 1:17 PM, Edward Sawyer wrote:
Dave - is this actually REALLY quickly synchronized separate transmissions to 3 different stations?  Or are there 
3 simultaneous transmissions occurring at exactly the same time?  If it’s the former, its certainly serial 
single op worthy - I do this all the time while contesting - just not as fast as a computer.  If it’s the 
later, then it would be "more than one signal at a time".  That would violate current rules in all 
categories I believe.  Even Multi-Op stations can only have one signal at a time on a distinct band.  Of course I 
am assuming that a "signal" is the roughly 50hz of individual beeps and not the 3khz of computer 
managed bandwidth.  All definitions to be finalized with this new breed of contest category.  Illustrating how 
non-human controlled it really is.

Interestingly, and on a different subject, whether 5T5PA is actually compliant with the 
new DXCC rules making such contacts ineligible for DXCC is another topic.  I believe that 
the next contact cannot be made without a human engagement.  So was it semi-automatic or 
automatic fire?  And is that engagement needed as part of a "stack build" or 
real time - the initial DXCC language was not too clear.

Ed  N1UR

-----Original Message-----
From: CQ-Contest [mailto:cq-contest-bounces@contesting.com] On Behalf Of David 
Gilbert
Sent: Tuesday, August 6, 2019 3:10 PM
To: 'CQ-Contest@contesting. com'
Subject: [CQ-Contest] WW-Digi Contest -- Rule Clarification


Although it is certainly implied, the rules listed on the WW-Digi website do 
not specifically prohibit using more than one signal at the same time ON THE 
SAME BAND for the single op category.  They say that transmission can only be 
on one band at a time, but they don't say you can't make multiple transmissions 
at the same time on the same band.

The reason I bring this up is that I just witnessed 5T5PA making three separate 
FT8 transmissions on 20m to three different stations all within the same 
fifteen second window.  A short time later I saw two separate transmissions 
from him to two different stations (and different stations than the previous 
three), again all within the same fifteen second window.  Each simultaneous 
transmission was spaced exactly 60 Hz apart, and the software cleanly decoded 
all signals as if they were from different callsigns.  5T5PA expertly managed 
all the QSOs cleanly.

Interestingly enough, even though I've worked 5T5PA before, JTAlert only 
labeled one of the three as a dupe.

I can think of more than a couple of ways 5T5PA could be doing this, and for 
casual operation I see no problem with it.  For a DXpedition, it might even 
make a lot of sense.  I don't remember it being against FCC/other laws, but I 
could be wrong about that.  In any case, it seems to me that it could open up 
the possibility for some controversy in a contest.

Or maybe I'm just crying wolf here ...

73,
Dave   AB7E

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