Ron,
It seems that you just don't want to understand that submitted LOGS ARE
PUBLIC by rule. So the "why you should" is simply "because it is the rule".
You also do not recognize that when you submit your log, you agree to make
your log public or you don't submit it. You are given the opportunity to say
no and not submit your log so I am not sure what you're claiming about being
*forced*. No one forces you to submit a log.
You say:
"I find it interesting that you challenge me to explain why my log should
not be made public, yet continually refuse to explain why I should".
What you are doing in asking me to explain why the rule should be in place
is considered a logical fallacy called "shifting the burden of proof".
You are attempting to shift the burden of proof for your challenge of the
status quo (existing rules) to me in order to avoid offering valid support
for your assertion.
(Google "shifting the burden of proof" for more on this logical fallacy. One
concise reference is:
http://ksuweb.kennesaw.edu/~shagin/logfal-distract-shiftburden.htm )
The rules are what they are. Tell me why they should be different. You state
emphatically that it is your opinion, but that's all. Tell me *why*.
Bob W5OV
-----Original Message-----
From: cq-contest-bounces@contesting.com
[mailto:cq-contest-bounces@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Ron Notarius W3WN
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2011 8:28 PM
To: 'Bob Naumann'; cq-contest@contesting.com
Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] KR2Q - RX1CQ
I find it interesting that you challenge me to explain why my log should not
be made public, yet continually refuse to explain why I should.
So you get to refute my reasons, but refuse to permit me the same courtesy.
Sorry; cuts both ways.
Frankly, what we don't seem to agree on is that I have a firm belief in
personal privacy... that I have the right to refuse to unconditionally
refuse to reveal information without good cause. Call it a form of
"considered innocent until proven guilty." It would appear that you believe
that I have no such right, that the mere fact that I operate mandates that I
must accede to any demands... a form of "considered guilty until proven
innocent."
Mandating that the submitted log must be made public, IMHO, should not and
should never be a condition of entry. That is only a very recent
development, in the history of the major contests. And if that mandate,
with no other options, simply means all or nothing... with no debate, no
middle ground, no other options... then you force me out. Yes, I feel that
strongly about it.
And you STILL haven't answered the key question, from an earlier email.
Funny, no one ever seems to answer that.
If making logs public is such a good thing (which I don't necessarily
concede), why must it be mandated? Why can't I simply be asked? Why not
that simple courtesy?
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Naumann [mailto:W5OV@W5OV.COM]
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2011 8:53 PM
To: 'Ron Notarius W3WN'; cq-contest@contesting.com
Subject: RE: [CQ-Contest] KR2Q - RX1CQ
Ron,
Once again, you have offered no explanation of WHY your log should not be
public.
You can object all you want, but it would be a whole lot more effective if
you had some reason why your log should not be public. You just having that
as an opinion is not a reason for why.
Tell me why you object? What is private about your contest log data? What
difference does it make if it is public?
Making your log public is a condition of entry. In essence, they're asking
you if it's OK to make your log public, and you're saying no by not
submitting it.
I don't see what the issue is - at all.
Sorry.
73,
-Bob W5OV
-----Original Message-----
From: Ron Notarius W3WN [mailto:wn3vaw@verizon.net]
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2011 6:20 PM
To: w5ov@w5ov.com; cq-contest@contesting.com
Subject: RE: [CQ-Contest] KR2Q - RX1CQ
Re: "I have found in nearly 40 years of playing this game that the top
competitors have always shared their information with each other and
anyone else who asked. No one should object because no one should have
anything to hide."
1. So if all anyone has to do is ask, WHY are you demanding that my log be
made open to the public WITHOUT ASKING?
2. Why do you presume that someone is hiding something because they prefer
not to open their logs to the public, regardless of what their reasons may
be?
I really dislike this assertion that nobody "should" object. No dissension
at all is permitted? Really?
When people, even if it is a minority, are being forced to do something and
they are not even allowed to object, we have a real problem.
And don't tell me that we have the option to not send in logs. I've already
been told by one major contest organizer that since I don't turn in logs to
his contest (because of my objection to open logs, and to my being told that
my only option is to not send them in), I have forfeited my right to comment
on anything involving his contest... including the open logs issue. So my
options seem to be agree & shut up, or boycott & shut up, but either way, my
concerns are disregarded. Nice.
73
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