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Re: [VHFcontesting] A distance scoring contest

To: Zack Widup <w9sz.zack@gmail.com>, vhfcontesting@contesting.com
Subject: Re: [VHFcontesting] A distance scoring contest
From: Marshall Williams <k5qe@sabinenet.com>
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 11:52:13 -0600
List-post: <vhfcontesting@contesting.com">mailto:vhfcontesting@contesting.com>
Hi Zack and the rest of the list.....I am currently building up 4 x 6el 
Cheap Yagis on 2M for portable / rover use.  With a 400W TE brick, it 
should be easy to work EME, especially with the larger stations.  If you 
were set up right at the division between two grids, you should be able 
to build up the antenna, work as many EME contacts as possible, and then 
hand carry the antenna across the line while moving your truck, and 
start making contacts again.  This is a "Proof of Concept" deal, but I 
have confidence that it will work all OK.  If I can get this working, I 
plan to put Louisiana on EME as a lot of folks seem to need it. 

In addition, I have built another 8 x 6el Cheap Yagis in case we find 
that the 4 bay system is "weak".  The 8 bay array will clearly be a lot 
bigger and more difficult to deal with, but it could be mounted on a 
trailer or something like that.  I believe that the 8 x 6el Cheap Yagis 
will be only 6db down from my large 8 x 2M18XXX array.  Since you can 
build Cheap Yagis for almost nothing, it is an interesting concept. 

Another thing that has not yet been mentioned:  With a single long yagi 
or a stacked pair of medium length yagis, a rover could easily make EME 
contacts when the moon is just rising or just setting.  There is 
considerable ground gain available then so contacts with the larger 
stations are quite possible.  Believe it or not, I have actually worked 
a single 7el yagi in Switzerland.  I would have to say that was a tough 
one!!

Bottom line here is that EME for rovers is not that hard, especially 
with JT65b to help you out.  Such a rover would not make as many grids, 
as there would be setup and tear-down time involved.  However, the 
rewards of just a few EME contacts would swamp all the "normal" contacts 
possible to a rover(except possibly for grid circlers). 

Speaking of which, would grid circlers still have a huge advantage due 
to all the QSO's that they can make?  Would a contact "just across the 
line" count for 0.03 miles??  Just wondering.

73 to all....Marshall K5QE

Zack Widup wrote:

> That is sooo cool that you made all those EME QSO's in the contest! I 
> don't even hope to ever achieve that in the QRP Portable class! But 
> then, neither will anyone else in that category.   :-)
>  
> It certainly puts a new twist on distance scoring, doesn't it? Not 
> likely a Rover is going to do EME, either. At least not on 144 MHz.
>  
> 73, Zack W9SZ
>
> On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 10:08 AM, Marshall Williams 
> <k5qe@sabinenet.com <mailto:k5qe@sabinenet.com>> wrote:
>
>     Hello to everyone.....Concerning the Distance scoring thing:
>      First, let
>     me say that I neither oppose nor favor a distance measured contest.  I
>     have never operated in one and it might be fun.
>
>     However, I would like to bring up an issue that has not been
>     considered.  In the Jan VHF contest, I made 36 2M EME contacts with
>     stations all over Europe and the US.  Although there are only a few
>     JA's, VK's, and ZL's on EME, it is certainly possible to work them
>     too.
>     Below I have listed a few of these contacts, just for calculation
>     purposes.
>
>     A bit of analysis here:  The longest contact made was to Glenn,
>     ZS2GK at
>     9124 miles....the shortest to John, W4RBO, was only 774 miles.
>      Most EU
>     contacts are 5000+ miles.  The run of the mill US contacts were from
>     1200- to 1900- miles.  I have only listed 31 contacts, with a total
>     mileage of 120997.
>
>     The issue that I want to advance is that a single contact of 9124
>     miles
>     would be the same as 91 contacts of 100 miles--or 45 contacts of 200
>     miles.  I doubt very much that I make 45 contacts of 200 miles or more
>     to non-EME stations in *any* VHF contest on 2M.  The contacts
>     listed(the
>     other 5 are scattered in my log somewhere) would be equivalent to 1209
>     contacts of 100 miles and 604 contacts of 200 miles!!  I certainly
>     have
>     never made 1209 contacts on 2M in any contest, much less of 100 miles.
>     I have never made 604 contacts on 2M either....of any distance.  I
>     guess
>     I can dream.....HI.
>
>     Hence, and I am finally getting to the point of all this, a distance
>     scoring contest would inevitably become a "mini-EME" contest with
>     whatever locals you could find thrown in.  I would participate in this
>     contest and have fun, especially since I would have a major advantage
>     over everyone in the country except for a few spoil sports.....like
>     W5UN, KB8RQ, K9MRI, W7GJ, K6MYC, K1JT, and a few others.  HI.  You may
>     see pictures of  my "advantage" on my web site.
>
>     Finally, a contest where the advantage of the folks living in the
>     "Golden Corridor" is eliminated!!!  It is CLEAR that we should
>     have such
>     a contest!!!  Considering how awful the propagation was in this Jan
>     contest, maybe the Jan contest should be it.
>
>     OK you say, we will just ban EME contacts in such a contest.  Well
>     that
>     certainly files in the face of a distance measured contest.  We want
>     people to work hard to make difficult, long distance
>     contacts--just not
>     TOO long distance!!
>
>     Again, I think that a distance measured contest might be fun and I
>     would
>     certainly participate.  I just wanted everyone to know how such a
>     contest will be "gamed".
>
>     GM es 73 to all.....Marshall K5QE
>     www.k5qe.com <http://www.k5qe.com/>
>
>     QSO:   144 PH 2009-01-18 0704 K5QE              EM31   ZS2GK
>     KF47    9124 miles
>     QSO:   144 PH 2009-01-18 0710 K5QE              EM31   DL8GP
>     JN39     5055 miles
>     QSO:   144 CW 2009-01-18 0720 K5QE             EM31   SM2CEW
>     KP15     4963 miles
>     QSO:   144 PH 2009-01-18 0730 K5QE              EM31   RK3FG
>     KO86    5729 miles
>     QSO:   144 PH 2009-01-18 0734 K5QE              EM31   K0KP
>           EN36     1043 miles
>     QSO:   144 PH 2009-01-18 0750 K5QE              EM31   IK1UWL
>     JN33     5260 miles
>     QSO:   144 PH 2009-01-18 0754 K5QE              EM31   HA0HO
>     KN07    5666 miles
>     QSO:   144 PH 2009-01-18 0758 K5QE              EM31   K0AWU
>     EN37    1112 miles
>     QSO:   144 PH 2009-01-18 0802 K5QE              EM31   9A3GE
>          JN75      5519 miles
>     QSO:   144 PH 2009-01-18 0807 K5QE              EM31   YL2HA
>     KO26     5403 miles
>     QSO:   144 PH 2009-01-18 0811 K5QE              EM31   OM3BC
>     JN98      5550 miles
>     QSO:   144 PH 2009-01-18 0816 K5QE              EM31   YT3I
>          KN05     5752 miles
>     QSO:   144 PH 2009-01-18 0820 K5QE              EM31   WB2RVX
>     FM29     1195 miles
>     QSO:   144 PH 2009-01-18 0825 K5QE              EM31   DK1CO
>     JO63      5139 miles
>     QSO:   144 PH 2009-01-18 0832 K5QE              EM31   IK1FJI
>           JN44      5310 miles
>     QSO:   144 PH 2009-01-18 0837 K5QE              EM31   DK5EW
>     JN48      5168 miles
>     QSO:   144 PH 2009-01-18 0845 K5QE              EM31   DL4DWA
>     JO61     5212 miles
>     QSO:   144 PH 2009-01-18 0855 K5QE              EM31   S52LM
>         JN65     5438 miles
>     QSO:   144 PH 2009-01-18 0905 K5QE              EM31   K1JT
>         FN20     1224 miles
>     QSO:   144 PH 2009-01-18 0908 K5QE              EM31   WA3QPX
>     FM29     1195 miles
>     QSO:   144 PH 2009-01-18 0914 K5QE              EM31   DJ9EV
>             JN49       5134 miles
>     QSO:   144 PH 2009-01-18 0921 K5QE              EM31   K6MYC
>     DM07    1495 miles
>     QSO:   144 PH 2009-01-18 0924 K5QE              EM31   IK2DDR
>     JN55      5357 miles
>     QSO:   144 PH 2009-01-18 0940 K5QE              EM31   I2FAK
>       JN45      5274 miles
>     QSO:   144 PH 2009-01-18 0958 K5QE              EM31   EB1DNK
>     IN62      4655 miles
>     QSO:   144 PH 2009-01-18 1025 K5QE              EM31   K7CW
>     CN87      1899 miles
>     QSO:   144 PH 2009-01-18 1100 K5QE              EM31   K1OR
>         FN42      1469 miles
>     QSO:   144 PH 2009-01-18 1110 K5QE              EM31   W7CE
>     CN87      1889 miles
>     QSO:   144 PH 2009-01-18 1134 K5QE              EM31   W4RBO
>     EL99       774 miles
>     QSO:   144 PH 2009-01-18 1140 K5QE              EM31   W1TMZ
>     FN41     1442 miles
>     QSO:   144 PH 2009-01-18 1146 K5QE              EM31   VE5UF
>     DO61      1542 miles
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