Since I was asked.......
The question as to use DEBUG mode to see pulses from the rotator, depends on
the vintage of RT-21. The early units (now > 10-12 years old) would freeze
the display to prevent rolling digits unless in DEBUG mode...OR use the
"Unfreeze Display" advanced option. Newer units default do the Unfreeze
mode and the later ones are setup this way unless you change it to "Freeze
Display". They do go into a slow update mode on pots to mitigate the digit
rolling, and they don't move on pulse systems unless the switch actually
gets turned!
The issue with a magnetic reed switch is that there is no way for a
controller to know what direction the motor turned if it wasn't being turned
by the controller. A reed switch, as in Orion, SPIDS and Prop Pitches only
impart distance, not direction. So all you could tell is that it turned
(Stan's antenna really does turn through the motor). When the controller is
turning it , it knows the direction!
With a pot or full encoder, you can tell what direction and actually,
there's a mode that would try to keep it on target.....but it's not what I
would call a recommended practice! I personally like the reed switch
rotators for their simplicity and reliability. There's not much to go wrong
in the "sensor" when it's just a reed switch and a magnet. They are
unaffected by RF noise, and near EMC events most of the time and can run
probably 1000' of unconditioned 2 conduct cable and still operate reliably.
All you have to do is have a motor that won't turn on it's own...and in
Stan's case, this has been a real challenge! But K5GO keeps kicking us on
40 meters with that thing! And it's a great video, eh? The original 110'
version was about the most impressive thing I've seen!
Jeff
-----Original Message-----
From: TowerTalk <towertalk-bounces@contesting.com> On Behalf Of
towertalk-request@contesting.com
Sent: Saturday, May 23, 2020 12:00 PM
To: towertalk@contesting.com
Subject: TowerTalk Digest, Vol 209, Issue 23
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"Re: Contents of TowerTalk digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Re: Prop pitch question (Richard (Rick) Karlquist)
2. Re: Prop pitch question (George Dubovsky)
3. Re: Prop pitch question (Stan Stockton)
4. FW: Insurance (W3YY)
5. Re: Prop pitch question (Stan Stockton)
6. Re: Prop pitch question (john@kk9a.com)
7. Re: Prop pitch question (john@kk9a.com)
8. Insuramce (Rob Atkinson)
9. Re: Insuramce (k7lxc@aol.com)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Fri, 22 May 2020 13:25:36 -0700
From: "Richard (Rick) Karlquist" <richard@karlquist.com>
To: wa5rtg@gmail.com
Cc: "TowerTalk@contesting.com" <TowerTalk@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Prop pitch question
Message-ID: <3e946a20-43e8-9cbe-3b98-9512063d23fa@karlquist.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Way bigger than mine!
Does the Green Heron only detect free wheeling when in debug mode, and not
merely in normal "ON" mode?
Rick N6RK
On 5/22/2020 12:37 PM, Stan Stockton wrote:
> Rick,
>
> Here is a nice video I took of the antenna about a year ago.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_c-_Rq8w7Kc
>
> Boom is 45G. Vertical Truss is 55G and side trusses are 25G. Antenna
> weighs something like 1500 pounds.
>
> I have a Green Heron controller and if you leave it in debug mode it
> will show movement in the motor with the reed switch pulses for
indication.
> Without a pot, you don't know where it is pointed, however.
>
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Fri, 22 May 2020 16:33:34 -0400
From: George Dubovsky <n4ua.va@gmail.com>
To: "Richard (Rick) Karlquist" <richard@karlquist.com>
Cc: Stan Stockton <wa5rtg@gmail.com>, "TowerTalk@contesting.com"
<TowerTalk@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Prop pitch question
Message-ID:
<CAALHBra8qz==yQaRMn0ZUCky89cVkdE14SM3tswQ3wxJ1SwnHQ@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Prop pitch motors came with brakes, sort of a disc brake; the first step in
converting them to ham use is to remove the brake assembly from the bottom
of the motor. It took a slug of current to operate them so that's why they
had to come out.
73,
geo - n4ua
On Fri, May 22, 2020 at 4:25 PM Richard (Rick) Karlquist <
richard@karlquist.com> wrote:
> Way bigger than mine!
>
> Does the Green Heron only detect free wheeling when in debug mode, and
> not merely in normal "ON" mode?
>
> Rick N6RK
>
> On 5/22/2020 12:37 PM, Stan Stockton wrote:
> > Rick,
> >
> > Here is a nice video I took of the antenna about a year ago.
> >
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_c-_Rq8w7Kc
> >
> > Boom is 45G. Vertical Truss is 55G and side trusses are 25G.
> > Antenna weighs something like 1500 pounds.
> >
> > I have a Green Heron controller and if you leave it in debug mode it
> > will show movement in the motor with the reed switch pulses for
indication.
> > Without a pot, you don't know where it is pointed, however.
> >
> _______________________________________________
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TowerTalk mailing list
> TowerTalk@contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
>
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Fri, 22 May 2020 15:39:20 -0500
From: Stan Stockton <wa5rtg@gmail.com>
To: "Richard (Rick) Karlquist" <richard@karlquist.com>
Cc: "TowerTalk@contesting.com" <TowerTalk@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Prop pitch question
Message-ID:
<CACdYvGHSHkbCbYjJ78G34pr8sfhi7XBKttwEsybNSb4r4ndUfg@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
You should ask Jeff, but I believe that you should have it in debug mode if
you want to see the pulses register long after the last rotation.
On Fri, May 22, 2020 at 3:25 PM Richard (Rick) Karlquist <
richard@karlquist.com> wrote:
> Way bigger than mine!
>
> Does the Green Heron only detect free wheeling when in debug mode, and
> not merely in normal "ON" mode?
>
> Rick N6RK
>
> On 5/22/2020 12:37 PM, Stan Stockton wrote:
> > Rick,
> >
> > Here is a nice video I took of the antenna about a year ago.
> >
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_c-_Rq8w7Kc
> >
> > Boom is 45G. Vertical Truss is 55G and side trusses are 25G.
> > Antenna weighs something like 1500 pounds.
> >
> > I have a Green Heron controller and if you leave it in debug mode it
> > will show movement in the motor with the reed switch pulses for
indication.
> > Without a pot, you don't know where it is pointed, however.
> >
>
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Fri, 22 May 2020 16:32:18 -0400
From: "W3YY" <w3yy@cox.net>
To: <towertalk@contesting.com>
Subject: [TowerTalk] FW: Insurance
Message-ID: <001601d63078$18967290$49c357b0$@cox.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I've had excellent coverage from my insurance company for lightning and
tower damage over the years. No raise in rates. I have only a small to
moderate deductible. I am extremely pleased with the insurance coverage.
73, Bob - W3YY
-----Original Message-----
From: TowerTalk [mailto:towertalk-bounces@contesting.com] On Behalf Of
krgoodwin@comcast.net
Sent: Friday, May 22, 2020 2:48 PM
To: towertalk@contesting.com
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Insurance
ARRL insurance is a marine policy, you state a value for a particular asset
and that's your insurance, no debate allowed on a valid claim. It isn't
cheap but there is no downside other than the effort of filing a claim. I
kind of remember that you're not necessarily allowed to under insure where I
think you had to insure for 80% of the fair market value. Many years ago
you had to insure the entire station's value but that is no longer the case,
you insure specific pieces of serial numbered equipment. I insure the just
the expensive stuff at its new purchase value since for example, lightning
damage to my keyer wouldn't be a big deal. Also note that a direct hit to a
tower (of reasonable size) is a low probability situation, Damage is far
more likely to come thru the cable, telephone and power lines or be induced
by a nearby (1000 feet) hit which raises the ground potential and you start
seeing energy come up the ground line if you don't have a single-point
grounding system.
I can't believe anybody would use home insurance on a tower loss if it were
covered. The deductible alone on my policy would pay for my entire amateur
radio station. Downsides from making a claim, it stays on your record and
will thus impact any cost negotiations if one were to change policies in the
future. Insurance companies don't want to take on customers with claims on
their records. For a small claim against a house's value, I've never seen
where an insurance company didn't make back a small claim payout in 4 - 5
years with their rate increases. On the other side of the equation, when I
took a nearby lightning hit it blew out all sorts of things (HVAC, Security
System, TVs, telephones, HiFi and major parts of the amateur radio station).
In this case it was a definite claim situation (loss was substantial). In a
few cases where an exact replacement was no longer available, I initially
fought using the insurance company's recommended supplier but after a few
go-rounds, they actually came up with a better replacement and had definite
expertise for the equipment in question. There is no longer any customer
loyalty in the insurance business (ask me why I know) and it has gotten to
the point where you re-bid all of your insurance policies every year. I
can't take that much pain and have begun to consider using a broker to
handle it. Self-insurance is looking better every year if the XYL would
ever allow it. Ken K5RG
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http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Fri, 22 May 2020 17:23:40 -0500
From: Stan Stockton <wa5rtg@gmail.com>
To: George Dubovsky <n4ua.va@gmail.com>
Cc: "Richard (Rick) Karlquist" <richard@karlquist.com>,
"TowerTalk@contesting.com" <TowerTalk@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Prop pitch question
Message-ID: <F40017A0-071A-47AD-AEE0-CB4AEB9664CD@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Yes, I have several new, extra large prop pitches. Had I thought it would
not hold this particular antenna I might have tried to use the brake, but
instead I removed the brake before installing on the tower. I should play
with one of the new ones. It would not be difficult to replace the motor.
I've sold a few of these prop pitches. If anyone is interested, let me
know. They are big - 102 pounds if I remember correctly which is about
triple the weight of the small one.
73... Stan, K5GO
> On May 22, 2020, at 3:33 PM, George Dubovsky <n4ua.va@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Prop pitch motors came with brakes, sort of a disc brake; the first step
in converting them to ham use is to remove the brake assembly from the
bottom of the motor. It took a slug of current to operate them so that's why
they had to come out.
>
> 73,
>
> geo - n4ua
>
>> On Fri, May 22, 2020 at 4:25 PM Richard (Rick) Karlquist
<richard@karlquist.com> wrote:
>> Way bigger than mine!
>>
>> Does the Green Heron only detect free wheeling when in debug mode,
>> and not merely in normal "ON" mode?
>>
>> Rick N6RK
>>
>> On 5/22/2020 12:37 PM, Stan Stockton wrote:
>> > Rick,
>> >
>> > Here is a nice video I took of the antenna about a year ago.
>> >
>> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_c-_Rq8w7Kc
>> >
>> > Boom is 45G. Vertical Truss is 55G and side trusses are 25G.
>> > Antenna weighs something like 1500 pounds.
>> >
>> > I have a Green Heron controller and if you leave it in debug mode
>> > it will show movement in the motor with the reed switch pulses for
indication.
>> > Without a pot, you don't know where it is pointed, however.
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TowerTalk mailing list
>> TowerTalk@contesting.com
>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Fri, 22 May 2020 20:18:29 -0400
From: <john@kk9a.com>
To: <towertalk@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Prop pitch question
Message-ID: <000001d63097$b0a5a910$11f0fb30$@com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I would be surprised if your prop pitch is free wheeling unless the MonstIR
is out of balance. K7NV may be the only rotator manufacture to figure out
that there is more clamping surface area when using a round clamp on a round
mast! I doubt that his clamp is slipping. I use DX Engineering 3" saddle
clamps on my antennas. I have never had the antennas slip on the mast -
what does SteppIR use?
John KK9A
Richard (Rick) N6RK wrote:
I have a MonstIR turned by a K7NV "small" prop pitch. I don't know how big
your Yagi is, but mine has full size elements
(70 feet long) on a 36 foot boom.
I have been having the beam turn a bit during high winds.
It never occurred to me that the prop pitch could be free wheeling. I
assumed it was either the mast slipping in the prop pitch clamp or the boom
slipping on the mast.
The K7NV has probably the best mast clamp ever made.
Also I have a Slipp-Nott on the boom to mast plate.
Now that I think about it, the free wheeling theory makes some sense.
This raises the question: how did you determine that the slipping was due
to the rotor gears, as opposed to the rotor to mast clamp or the mast to
boom plate?
Thinking out loud here (a bad habit of mine), should I leave the rotor
control box turned on all the time, especially on windy days, with the rotor
parked at zero degrees azimuth. AFAIK, the display on the box will indicate
any free wheeling of the prop pitch, but will do nothing if the mast is
slipping. So far, I usually turn it off when not on the air (or during a
160 meter contest, hi) and I am assuming it is completely off and wouldn't
record free wheeling. The box is a legacy Green Heron (still works great
after 15 years).
73
Rick N6RK
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Fri, 22 May 2020 20:18:37 -0400
From: <john@kk9a.com>
To: <towertalk@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Prop pitch question
Message-ID: <000101d63097$b4e0bab0$1ea23010$@com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
That is one disadvantage of a pulse system, I hope that you do not have to
recalibrate often. I believe that 4O3A has a compass indicating controller.
Of course you can accomplish having the same gain other ways than a single
big boom 40m but it is pretty awesome looking. I thought it was for sale?
73,
John KK9A
Stan Stockton wa5rtg at gmail.com
You should ask Jeff, but I believe that you should have it in debug mode if
you want to see the pulses register long after the last rotation.
On Fri, May 22, 2020 at 3:25 PM Richard (Rick) Karlquist <
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Sat, 23 May 2020 05:23:00 -0500
From: Rob Atkinson <ranchorobbo@gmail.com>
To: towertalk <towertalk@contesting.com>
Subject: [TowerTalk] Insuramce
Message-ID:
<CALWD7Z4_vuWzFDZ=NbEjx2zRoM3Z1RVtYPPdZ8Lh5TdarH8T1Q@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
The purpose of a policy on hour home and other structures on your land is to
cover catastrophic loss. Examples: Fire, a large tree falling on your
home, destruction from earthquake, tornado, (your roof blowing
off) ... that sort of thing. If bad luck has made your house uninhabitable,
then you should probably file a claim. You do not file a claim when Johnny
breaks a window with a baseball, or any other
little piddly thing. Your ham hobby doesn't count 95% of the time.
But there are many folks who don't understand insurance, and think it's a
money pot for funding home improvements and get angry when they're told no,
a broken window doesn't mean Insurance pays for all new windows all over
your home.
73
Rob
K5UJ
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Sat, 23 May 2020 15:49:59 +0000 (UTC)
From: k7lxc@aol.com
To: towertalk@contesting.com
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Insuramce
Message-ID: <75967743.2573865.1590248999168@mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Howdy, TowerTalkians -
? ? Ray Fallen, ND8I, is an insurance professional and wrote the insurance
chapter in my UP THE TOWER book (available at championradio.com). It's
excellent. He also wrote an article on insurance in QST a year or 2 back - I
don't have the link. He does a terrific job of explaining the ins and outs
of insurance coverage. They are must reads.
Cheers,Steve? ?K7LXC
------------------------------
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------------------------------
End of TowerTalk Digest, Vol 209, Issue 23
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