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Re: [TowerTalk] Dipole length vs diameter -- a theory question

To: towertalk@contesting.com
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Dipole length vs diameter -- a theory question
From: jimlux <jimlux@earthlink.net>
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2020 14:13:32 -0800
List-post: <mailto:towertalk@contesting.com>
On 1/28/20 12:19 PM, David Gilbert wrote:

As you point out, the resonance of a conductor is determined by length (inductance) and diameter (distributed capacitance to itself).  I don't know the formula for that either, but I'm pretty sure that whatever you get by reply to your question will be for a straight conductor.  A bent conductor like your halo will have somewhat more capacitance to itself than a straight one.

It's not exactly accurate to relate length to inductance and diameter to capacitance for determining antenna resonant frequency. The dominant factor is the length. Changes in diameter will change the impedance bandwidth but not the resonant frequency (very much).

The K-factor graph can be derived semi-analytically - there are several analytical expressions for the complex impedance of an antenna (and you can solve for where X is zero) over a restricted range. Or, you can numerically integrate the field equations - which is what people have been doing since the late 1800s.

That whole "self capacitance end effect" is a hand-wavey thing that is a conceptual explanation that isn't particularly accurate, but does seem to work.



As Dave says - the way you solve this is to use a method of moments code (like NEC and its ilk) which numerically integrates the electric field equation.

EZNEC (and NEC) do not model "capacitance" per-se. What they model is the current induced in a small piece of the antenna by the currents flowing in all the other pieces of the antenna, subject to the constraint that the voltages on the ends of connected pieces are the same.

It basically sets up a huge set of simultaneous equations (the admittance matrix) and then solves it.










Also, proximity has more effect at high voltage positions than at low voltage positions ... which is how top hats work.

All that is why I usually just generate an EZNEC+ model, which at least tries to geometrically take into account distributed capacitance.  As a general rule, almost every model I've ever done says that as I increase the width (as long as it's an appreciable percent of a wavelength) the resonant frequency goes down and the bandwidth increases ... but configuration has a large effect.

73,
Dave   AB7E



On 1/28/2020 11:19 AM, Larry Banks via TowerTalk wrote:
Hi TTers,

A friend of mine asked me what first appeared to be a simple question.  Paraphrasing:

           “How do I calculate the length of my HB 2M halo, based on
             the diameter of the aluminum rod.  Is it like propagation
             velocity with coax?”

My quick answer was: “No, propagation velocity only relates to transmission lines.  Use the graph in the literature for your design to start.  Modeling will help.  But let me do some research.”

I had realized that I really didn’t know the answer.  I have looked in my two usual places: the ARRL Antenna Book and Wikipedia and found lots of hand-waving and the usual references to the “K-factor” graph, which appears to be derived experimentally.  BUT NO THEORY, other than vague references to the capacitance and inductance of the rod changing with dimensional changes which, in fact, is similar to transmission lines.

Do any of you have a reference to some real theory and an equation that allows me to calculate this based on length, diameter, and material characteristics?  (Ignoring environment effects of course. This would be for free space.)

73 -- Larry -- W1DYJ

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