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[TowerTalk] supporting a 40 meter rotatable dipole with trusses

To: <towertalk@contesting.com>
Subject: [TowerTalk] supporting a 40 meter rotatable dipole with trusses
From: "Jim Thomson" <jim.thom@telus.net>
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2018 09:56:28 -0700
List-post: <mailto:towertalk@contesting.com>
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2018 16:40:04 -0700 (PDT)
From: terry burge <ki7m@comcast.net>
To: TowerTalk@contesting.com, terry burge <ki7m@comcast.net>
Subject: [TowerTalk] supporting a 40 meter rotatable dipole with
trusses

<Been working on my 40 meter rotatable dipole I plan to put up at 124 feet or 
so. But I'm worried about making sure whatever I come up with to fix the 3/16" 
dacron truss lines to the elements out about 20' or so are secure. Dealing with 
the DXE tubing when <it gets down below 1" or so I don't want anything too 
heavy. Also don't want to drill and weaken the dipole. I actually came up with 
some 'rings' from Wilco just about the right size that would slip over the 
0.5", 0.625", 0.750" to I believe the 0.875". There I <could use 1/2"-1 1/4" 
hose clamps to make sure the ring doesn't slip further up. Just the dacron 
wrapped around the ring might be enough to keep that from happening but I don't 
trust it.


<I'm not sure I could trust just using the hose clamps to hold the dacron line 
but I don't want to drill and weaken the tubing in any way.


<Any better idea? You can see a few pictures of what I'm building on my 
QRZ/KI7M page.


<Terry

<KI7M

##  Ken,  W3JK, uses  a 2 piece machined aluminum clamp, thick,  rectangular, 
that goes around the tubing in question.
On the top part of the clamp, a piece of  1 x 1  x .125  angle aluminum is 
bolted, using the same pair of ss bolts as the
2 x piece clamp.   The vertical part of the angle al is where the truss  
terminates... with just a hole in the vert portion of the
angle al.   Use a small thimble etc, so the dacron does not bear down on the 
edges of the hole.   Ken will make a couple of pairs
for you, if he knows the exact tubing OD in question.  Then they wont slip. 

##  I looked at your pix.  I would use better mast to rectangular plate  
clamps.... vs the muffler style clamps  you show in the pix.
Use a pair of the dx eng style  muffler clamps..  the ones that have the SOLID  
al  saddle, then they have loads of surface area.  The  SS
u bolts that come with them are extra long threads, that will handle any 
thickness al plate.   You also
need a solid fiberglass  center insulator.   Without it, you have way too much 
stress right in the middle. 

##  heres the  real concern.   Did  you  run the design through something like 
the DX eng  yagi mech software program ???  
66 ft long  and starting with just  1.25..and down to the typ  .375     even 
with thick, inboard sections, is going to have a tough
time with high winds... esp with dipole broadside to the wind.   If we  knew 
the exact tubing schedule used, which means  exposed
tubing lengths  and also overlaps, and wall thickness,  or if any inner liners 
used  etc, etc, then it can all be run through the dx eng  mech 
software  very quickly. 

##  Your pair of over head truss lines  wont buy you anything for increased  
wind speed,  only sag, and sag from  snow and ice loading. 
You also require horizontal dacron truss lines  to handle increased  wind 
speeds.  Horz  truss lines will also minimize  horizontal 
deflection for  XXX  wind speed.   If the  ele deflects  too much, then you 
also get this effect called...  wind induced  swr. 

##  The dx eng yagi mech  program  will spit out  how much vertical..and  horz  
deflection you will get..and also factor in both vert
and horz  truss lines. 

##  At 1st glance, I just cant see   your  66 ft long ele  surviving...when its 
only 1.25 inch  OD in the middle.   1.25 is what you would typ
use for the center of a 20m ele.   For a 66 ft long dipole,  2.00 inch is typ 
used..then tapering down to .375 at the tips.  Even then, the inboard
15 ft on either side of mast is typ heavy walled material, like .125.   And 
thats  just to get it to survive a   85-90 mph gust.   Without a horz truss,
the ele deflection is insane with high winds.   Typ  a single horz truss is  
used, and terminates 15 ft  from the mast. 

Jim  VE7RF 

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