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Re: [TowerTalk] US Tower price increase

To: Ed <navydude1962@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] US Tower price increase
From: john nistico <electric911inc@hotmail.com>
Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2017 12:03:32 +0000
List-post: <towertalk@contesting.com">mailto:towertalk@contesting.com>
If the cost offends you buy a different tower. It's not rocket science 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 3, 2017, at 12:12 AM, Ed via TowerTalk <towertalk@contesting.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> If you're remotely contemplating a UST, consider a LUSO for just a few 
> dollars more!  
> 
>> On Jan 2, 2017, at 16:55, Wayne Kline <w3ea@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I think the 10 minutes is the welding time, surly not the set up " 
>> installing the pieces into the welding Jig "  and from my observation  only  
>> the bottom and top area plates ( which would have the pillow block brackets 
>> pre welded on  ) are the only area which would require multiple  passes .
>> 
>> With big Arco or Miller Flux core  machines .... 10 min  would be on the low 
>> end  of time  But 30 to 35 min from raw pieces to  finished craned off unit 
>> more like it.
>> 
>> 
>> Wayne W3EA
>> 
>> ________________________________
>> From: TowerTalk <towertalk-bounces@contesting.com> on behalf of EZ Rhino 
>> <EZRhino@fastmovers.biz>
>> Sent: Monday, January 2, 2017 6:44 PM
>> To: Towertalk Reflector
>> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] US Tower price increase
>> 
>> Ten minutes huh?  I want to see that.   Send me a video.
>> 
>> Chris
>> KF7P
>> 
>> 
>> On Jan 2, 2017, at 16:26 , Kevin wrote:
>> 
>> Chris,
>> 
>> I used to do it for a living. I was certified to weld just about anything 
>> anywhere, except underwater.
>> 
>> They are NOT a start up. They've had all the tooling and "machinery" for 
>> many years now. ALL of their crank ups are a variation of 5 or 6  20' tower 
>> sections whose jigs were built years ago. I could probably weld one in 10 
>> minutes, even with my poor eyesight and prosthetic leg.
>> 
>> Press brakes, CNC Plasma tables, CNC lathes, welders, etc...don't need 
>> replacing very often, if ever, given proper maintenance. We had a WWII 
>> turret lathe that still put out very good parts, maybe not CNC quality but 
>> good enough.
>> 
>> They're building towers not high performance engines or wrist watches.
>> 
>> Kinda funny that Tashjian hasn't raised their prices by a factor of three. 
>> They're 20 miles apart and probably have quite a few of the same suppliers.
>> 
>> They simply don't want to be in the amateur market any longer.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 1/2/2017 4:56 PM, EZ Rhino wrote:
>>> Good points Jim.
>>> 
>>> I may also add that a lot of us (including myself, at times) are spoiled.  
>>> We clickety click click on line, and two days later a product is in our 
>>> mailbox.  We no longer realize how things are manufactured or the time, 
>>> energy and cost associated with producing a product.
>>> 
>>> Metal fabrication isn't an inexpensive or easy business to be in.  The 
>>> machinery needed to fabricate a tower is expensive, er, I mean, EXPENSIVE! 
>>> and HUGE!  CNC plasma tables, press brakes, welding equipment, CNC benders, 
>>> jigs, fixturing tables, tooling, tooling, and more tooling, and qualified 
>>> experienced operators of this machinery, and don't forget a huge building 
>>> that can store all this stuff.  Metal fab is a slow process, lots of labor, 
>>> and lots of trial and error to figure out how to make something that 
>>> functions correctly.  Then you need to figure out the most economical way 
>>> to mass produce the product with the least labor as possible.  It's not 
>>> easy.
>>> 
>>> I am not excusing the price increases at UST, as they do sound out of line. 
>>>  But I do think getting a new 50-foot crank up for $3k is a bargain!
>>> 
>>> Also watch the used market, where you can get a real deal on some used 
>>> stuff.  I watched the classifieds like a hawk for almost a year, finally 
>>> found a TriEx LM470 that was still horizontal, still partially crated, 
>>> never installed, and got it for a song.
>>> 
>>> Chris
>>> KF7P
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Jan 2, 2017, at 15:43 , jimlux wrote:
>>> 
>>> On 1/2/17 11:38 AM, Jim Brown wrote:
>>>> Great response, Jim. BUT -- the increase noted by the original poster
>>>> was that the increase was overnight!
>>>> 
>>>> Several possible reasons for this. One is that business operations for
>>>> the ham market are often supported by higher volume and higher margin
>>>> operations for other markets. When those other markets fall apart, they
>>>> no longer support the ham market, or contribute to economies of scale
>>>> that allow lower prices.
>>>> 
>>>> Another is corporate mergers, which can change business priorities,
>>>> change where products are manufactured.
>>>> 
>>>> But assuming corporate greed as the reason for all such price increases
>>>> is unreasonable. It certainly can be, but there are many other reasons.
>>>> 
>>> yes, I agree.. usually it's a "it's not economic to sell at that price any 
>>> more, compared to other products".  I was more commenting on the "back in 
>>> 85" comment.
>>> 
>>> I know someone who is buying 50 tower trailers with 100+ ft towers on them. 
>>> That's a much better sale proposition than onsie, twosie sales to 
>>> individuals.  Whether through distribution or not, the support costs tend 
>>> to be "per customer" not "per tower".
>>> 
>>> As for the overnight x3... That's a "we don't really want to be in this 
>>> business" or "our cost structure radically changed" kind of increase.
>>> 
>>> I've also seen that when you have a business founder of a family operated 
>>> business retires/sells out: the founder didn't have any debt service costs, 
>>> was willing to live out whatever margin there was.  The new owner had to 
>>> get a loan to buy the business and actually has to pay employees a wage and 
>>> benefits - all of a sudden instead of "my wife does the assembly and we're 
>>> on the same insurance" it's "I've got to pay a reasonable wage and provide 
>>> vacation, insurance, etc.", I've got to pay rent and storage costs, I've 
>>> got to pay for the "cost of money".
>>> 
>>> A similar phenomenon occurs when a partner retires/dies/leaves and the 
>>> remaining partners have to buy them out.
>>> 
>>> Or, it's just - we don't want to leave existing customers totally in the 
>>> lurch, but we can't subsidize them either - we'll be responsible and at 
>>> least make parts available, but at cost that is basically "fabricate from 
>>> scratch individually"
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> 
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>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> --
>> R. Kevin Stover
>> AC0H
>> ARRL
>> FISTS #11993
>> SKCC #215
>> NAQCC #3441
>> 
>> 
>> ---
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>> members have lots of helpful information and are happy to share it.
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>> members have lots of helpful information and are happy to share it.
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>> 
>> 
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