If the cost offends you buy a different tower. It's not rocket science
Sent from my iPhone
> On Jan 3, 2017, at 12:12 AM, Ed via TowerTalk <towertalk@contesting.com>
> wrote:
>
> If you're remotely contemplating a UST, consider a LUSO for just a few
> dollars more!
>
>> On Jan 2, 2017, at 16:55, Wayne Kline <w3ea@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I think the 10 minutes is the welding time, surly not the set up "
>> installing the pieces into the welding Jig " and from my observation only
>> the bottom and top area plates ( which would have the pillow block brackets
>> pre welded on ) are the only area which would require multiple passes .
>>
>> With big Arco or Miller Flux core machines .... 10 min would be on the low
>> end of time But 30 to 35 min from raw pieces to finished craned off unit
>> more like it.
>>
>>
>> Wayne W3EA
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: TowerTalk <towertalk-bounces@contesting.com> on behalf of EZ Rhino
>> <EZRhino@fastmovers.biz>
>> Sent: Monday, January 2, 2017 6:44 PM
>> To: Towertalk Reflector
>> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] US Tower price increase
>>
>> Ten minutes huh? I want to see that. Send me a video.
>>
>> Chris
>> KF7P
>>
>>
>> On Jan 2, 2017, at 16:26 , Kevin wrote:
>>
>> Chris,
>>
>> I used to do it for a living. I was certified to weld just about anything
>> anywhere, except underwater.
>>
>> They are NOT a start up. They've had all the tooling and "machinery" for
>> many years now. ALL of their crank ups are a variation of 5 or 6 20' tower
>> sections whose jigs were built years ago. I could probably weld one in 10
>> minutes, even with my poor eyesight and prosthetic leg.
>>
>> Press brakes, CNC Plasma tables, CNC lathes, welders, etc...don't need
>> replacing very often, if ever, given proper maintenance. We had a WWII
>> turret lathe that still put out very good parts, maybe not CNC quality but
>> good enough.
>>
>> They're building towers not high performance engines or wrist watches.
>>
>> Kinda funny that Tashjian hasn't raised their prices by a factor of three.
>> They're 20 miles apart and probably have quite a few of the same suppliers.
>>
>> They simply don't want to be in the amateur market any longer.
>>
>>
>>
>>> On 1/2/2017 4:56 PM, EZ Rhino wrote:
>>> Good points Jim.
>>>
>>> I may also add that a lot of us (including myself, at times) are spoiled.
>>> We clickety click click on line, and two days later a product is in our
>>> mailbox. We no longer realize how things are manufactured or the time,
>>> energy and cost associated with producing a product.
>>>
>>> Metal fabrication isn't an inexpensive or easy business to be in. The
>>> machinery needed to fabricate a tower is expensive, er, I mean, EXPENSIVE!
>>> and HUGE! CNC plasma tables, press brakes, welding equipment, CNC benders,
>>> jigs, fixturing tables, tooling, tooling, and more tooling, and qualified
>>> experienced operators of this machinery, and don't forget a huge building
>>> that can store all this stuff. Metal fab is a slow process, lots of labor,
>>> and lots of trial and error to figure out how to make something that
>>> functions correctly. Then you need to figure out the most economical way
>>> to mass produce the product with the least labor as possible. It's not
>>> easy.
>>>
>>> I am not excusing the price increases at UST, as they do sound out of line.
>>> But I do think getting a new 50-foot crank up for $3k is a bargain!
>>>
>>> Also watch the used market, where you can get a real deal on some used
>>> stuff. I watched the classifieds like a hawk for almost a year, finally
>>> found a TriEx LM470 that was still horizontal, still partially crated,
>>> never installed, and got it for a song.
>>>
>>> Chris
>>> KF7P
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jan 2, 2017, at 15:43 , jimlux wrote:
>>>
>>> On 1/2/17 11:38 AM, Jim Brown wrote:
>>>> Great response, Jim. BUT -- the increase noted by the original poster
>>>> was that the increase was overnight!
>>>>
>>>> Several possible reasons for this. One is that business operations for
>>>> the ham market are often supported by higher volume and higher margin
>>>> operations for other markets. When those other markets fall apart, they
>>>> no longer support the ham market, or contribute to economies of scale
>>>> that allow lower prices.
>>>>
>>>> Another is corporate mergers, which can change business priorities,
>>>> change where products are manufactured.
>>>>
>>>> But assuming corporate greed as the reason for all such price increases
>>>> is unreasonable. It certainly can be, but there are many other reasons.
>>>>
>>> yes, I agree.. usually it's a "it's not economic to sell at that price any
>>> more, compared to other products". I was more commenting on the "back in
>>> 85" comment.
>>>
>>> I know someone who is buying 50 tower trailers with 100+ ft towers on them.
>>> That's a much better sale proposition than onsie, twosie sales to
>>> individuals. Whether through distribution or not, the support costs tend
>>> to be "per customer" not "per tower".
>>>
>>> As for the overnight x3... That's a "we don't really want to be in this
>>> business" or "our cost structure radically changed" kind of increase.
>>>
>>> I've also seen that when you have a business founder of a family operated
>>> business retires/sells out: the founder didn't have any debt service costs,
>>> was willing to live out whatever margin there was. The new owner had to
>>> get a loan to buy the business and actually has to pay employees a wage and
>>> benefits - all of a sudden instead of "my wife does the assembly and we're
>>> on the same insurance" it's "I've got to pay a reasonable wage and provide
>>> vacation, insurance, etc.", I've got to pay rent and storage costs, I've
>>> got to pay for the "cost of money".
>>>
>>> A similar phenomenon occurs when a partner retires/dies/leaves and the
>>> remaining partners have to buy them out.
>>>
>>> Or, it's just - we don't want to leave existing customers totally in the
>>> lurch, but we can't subsidize them either - we'll be responsible and at
>>> least make parts available, but at cost that is basically "fabricate from
>>> scratch individually"
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>
>> --
>> R. Kevin Stover
>> AC0H
>> ARRL
>> FISTS #11993
>> SKCC #215
>> NAQCC #3441
>>
>>
>> ---
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