Towertalk
[Top] [All Lists]

Re: [TowerTalk] 340N + mag 520...how close can you get them ?? / Al mast

To: <w0yk@msn.com>, <towertalk@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] 340N + mag 520...how close can you get them ?? / Al mast
From: "Jim Thomson" <Jim.thom@telus.net>
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 05:49:49 -0800
List-post: <towertalk@contesting.com">mailto:towertalk@contesting.com>

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Ed Muns" <w0yk@msn.com>
Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 2:55 AM
To: "Jim Thomson" <Jim.thom@telus.net>; <towertalk-bounces@contesting.com>; 
<towertalk@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] 340N + mag 520...how close can you get them ?? / Al 
mast

> The biggest issue is detuning of the 20m Yagi by the 80 dipole.  This can 
> be greatly reduced by opening the feedpoint on the 80 when operating on 
> 20.  This is easily done with one of the relays in the 80 band-segment 
> relay box.
>
> Ed - W0YK

###  The 80m  rotary dipole will inline with both the  20m and 40m  boom 
below it.   IE:  at right angles to  both the 20 and 40m yagi's.       I 
would have thought that this alone  would eliminate  any potential 80/20m 
interaction ??     How does the 80m dipole resonate on 20m anyway .   20m 
isn't  exactly the 3rd harmonic of 80m.   That being said,  apparently per 
K6JRF... who has the Create brand  80m dipole  [albeit 56' long]  sez his 
does resonate on 20m.. and also 15m... go figure.

## I do have the F-12   relay switch box.... [ 6 x coils  and 3 x P+B  DPDT 
relays]     I don't understand how shunting various coil combo's  will open 
circuit the 80m dipole ?   As  a side note... I was not impressed with the 
12 ga  THnn wire used.... and re-wound all 6 x coils with 8 ga magnet wire 
[ polyimide.. you can also get it in 6ga..  both from planet wire] . 
However, a simple spst  vac relay  could easily accomplish what you 
stated... open one side of the feed point.  I could open both sides as well. 
This entire mess is used in conjunction  with an array solutions switch 
box... [ 1 in ......6 out, all 7 x connectors are  7-16 din type]     On 
this  AS remote switch box,  all un- used ants  have their center conductors 
grnded.   The AS box can easily be modified with on extra relay..... so one 
could have the choice of either floating or grnding all un-used  ant 
ports... any relay that is de-energized.     In my case, the AS box  will be 
mounted to the mast.

##  I don't particularly like the coil /relay 8 x segment switch box 
setup.... and will try another method.... and use one of my spare  10-1050 
pf  motor driven ceramic vac caps... inserted in series with  the hot leg of 
the feed point... and re-tune the dipole  for aprx  3500 hz.      Then by 
reducing C.... the resonance point of the dipole will keep moving UP in 
freq.    On paper, it should  tune the entire  3500-4000  band.

##  I have also replaced the stock 12 ga  Alumo weld  LL wires  with 10 ga 
alumoweld wires.   [I had a 500' roll of it].  I'm also seriously thinking 
of adding capacity hats on each end.... just past the LL insulator.   F-12 
calls em ..'T-bars'   on their new sigma  80m els.    I extrapolated between 
their  56' el.. and their 78'  ele  .......  and came up with aprx  21'   T 
bars........ one per side.     On paper, it  appears that the stock 18 ohm 
feed point  will be raised up a bit....  maybe as high as 30 ohms.   Either 
way.... the helical hairpin coil  across the feed point will  step the 
18-30 ohms  UP to 50 ohms.     I don't know if this has been attempted 
b4.... using LL wires in conjunction with T bar loading ?

##  as a side note, for any of you that use F-12 80/40m  switch box's  with 
the 2/4/6 x  coils and P+B /deltrol  DPDT mech relays in em.     I have had 
the relay contacts either go wide open, or high resistance.. and that's 
brand new.  I   solved the problem by silver plating all the contacts  with 
'cool-amp'....... and then also coated the contacts  with  ..'conducto lube' 
[ grnd up silver powder in grease, made for contacts, etc]       both 
available from  cool amp in Ore...... problem solved.     I also put heat 
inside the box.. and also silica gel desiccant.. and seal the box's tight. 
F-12 used nema box's.. which have a rubber gasket around em.

Tnx for all the help..... Jim  VE7RF



>
>
> Sent from my BlackBerry
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Jim Thomson" <Jim.thom@telus.net>
> Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 01:22:26
> To: <towertalk@contesting.com>
> Subject: [TowerTalk] 340N + mag 520...how close can you get them ?? / Al 
> mast
>
> gents
>
> F-12 claims  you can install another HF yagi,  or tribander, etc, 
> including 15m.....within 1 meter  [ 39.37"]   of the F-12 340N.
>
> Is this true?      Seems  like very short spacing to me.    I'd like to 
> install the F-12  EF-180B  [ 80m rotary dipole]  at the top of the mast
>
> then the F-12  mag 520  below it.... then the F-12  340N  at the bottom of 
> the mast.    I don't want to use any more mast than required to do the 
> job.
>
> The proposed mast is   2.875"  OD  6061-T6  Aluminum   [sched 80].. which 
> is .276"  wall thickness.   I worked out the section modulus
> 1.33622 x  40 ksi yield strength   = 53,448 inch lbs..... [or 4454 ft lbs] 
> ... which is plenty strong enough.   I have no clue what the actual 
> deflection
>
> will be towards the top of the mast.. in say a 70 mph wind.
>
>
> Another option was to use  2.875" OD  6061-T6  al mast... [sched 40].. 
> then stuff  some  2.375"  sched 80 inside of it.      Total wall thickness 
> in that case is
> aprx .405" .. and section modulus is increased to aprx 1.70541 
> 1.70541 x 40 ksi =  71,016 inch lbs  [ or 5918 ft lbs]    Again ,. I have 
> no clue what the
>
> actual deflection is, in a 70 mph wind.
>
> I'd like to use something like a 10.5' mast  [ out the top of the 
> tower]... with the 340N, just 1' above the bearing.... then the 20m yagi.. 
> 4' above the 40m,
>
> then the 80m dipole  3' above the 20m yagi.     LL truss bar would be 
> another 2.5'  above the 80m dipole.   = 10.5'
>
> On paper, none of this should interact.   Can one realistically install a 
> 520  just  4'  above the 40m yagi.. with no interaction on either yagi ???
>
> Plan B for a mast, is to use   2.875" OD  1026 DOM.. with  1/4"  wall 
> thickness.     Section modulus = 1.244131..... x 89 ksi = 110,743 in lbs
>
> or 9228 ft lbs.    1026 dom is cost prohibitive right now, esp with 
> shipping costs, etc.   6061-T6 is readily available here in town. I 
> already have 20' of
> 2.875"    6061-T6  [ sched 80]
>
> To test the 6061-T6... I proposed to install it to my deck, horizontally.. 
> with  XXX  feet  sticking out in mid air....then  start adding weight at 
> the extreme end
>
> and and also  along it's length .. and measure the deflection.    If there 
> is some on line calc that depicts deflection, that would be even better.
>
> Is my plan feasible.... or am I out to lunch on this one ??
>
> Later........... Jim   VE7RF
> _______________________________________________
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TowerTalk mailing list
> TowerTalk@contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
>
> 

_______________________________________________



_______________________________________________
TowerTalk mailing list
TowerTalk@contesting.com
http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk

<Prev in Thread] Current Thread [Next in Thread>