> Exothermic welding material is NOT a Hazmat material. Whoever is charging
> you hazmat handling is pulling a fast one on you.
>
> Always light the weld metal with a flint igniter. Using a match greatly
> increases your chances of getting seriously burned.
After this many years and the number of those things I've gone through, I'm
not very concerned.
Roger Halstead (K8RI, EN73 & ARRL Life Member)
N833R, World's Oldest Debonair (S# CD-2)
www.rogerhalstead.com
>
> Wilson Lui
> ATI Tectoniks
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: towertalk-bounces@contesting.com
> [mailto:towertalk-bounces@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Tower (K8RI)
> Sent: Friday, July 16, 2004 8:44 PM
> To: Phil Camera; TOWERTALK@contesting.com
> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] What Welder Makes Good Exothermic Bonds?
>
> I'm not sure how they get around the Hazmat conditions. "One shots (TM)"
> come complete. There is no deactivation or activation. The material itself
> is considered hazadarous. It'd burn a hole in a concrete floor.
>
> The igniter is in the same container and in contact with the regular
charge.
> The only thing the user does is knock it out of the bottom of the
container
> and pour it on top where it can be ignited by what ever means is used. Me?
I
> just use a match, but I do wear leather gloves.
>
> Roger Halstead (K8RI, EN73 & ARRL Life Member)
> N833R, World's Oldest Debonair (S# CD-2)
> www.rogerhalstead.com
>
> > Personally I pay only about $6 each for my OneShots. I have to order a
> > case at a time (12 ea.) and order from the local industrial supply house
> > (I use Steiner Electric) with whom the plant has an account. I'm not
> > sure if there is any Hazmat charges for shipping to Steiner from Erico;
> > all the units are so to speak deactivated and are not listed as
> > pyrotechnics or explosives. Phil KB9CRY
> >
> > Tower (K8RI) wrote:
> >
> > >Unfortunately for me the shipping would be a killer. There is this
> Hazmat
> > >thing about to contents. <:-)) Besides I have a full carton of the
> things
> > >out in the shop.
> > >I was paying about $8 plus change, but the last time the price had gone
> up.
> > >
> > >Roger Halstead (K8RI, EN73 & ARRL Life Member)
> > >N833R, World's Oldest Debonair (S# CD-2)
> > >www.rogerhalstead.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >>TT:
> > >>
> > >> Check out www.therfc.com (The RF Connection) near here in
> > >>
> > >>
> > >Gaithursburg,
> > >
> > >
> > >>MD. Their prices for one-shots are a bit better than ten bux a piece.
> > >>
> > >>73 de
> > >>Gene Smar AD3F
> > >>(Not an employee, just a satisfied customer.)
> > >>
> > >>----- Original Message -----
> > >>From: "Tower (K8RI)" <tower@rogerhalstead.com>
> > >>To: <kd4e@verizon.net>; <towertalk@contesting.com>
> > >>Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2004 3:53 PM
> > >>Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] What Welder Makes Good Exothermic Bonds?
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>>>If you are talking ground rods, it's by far cheaper (and easier) to
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>just
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>>>purchase a few "one shot" cartidges. Everything comes premeasured.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>You
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>just
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>>>fit the form around the rod, put the ground wire in the opening(s)
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>provided,
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>>>pack dirt around the form, pour in the charge, put on the top, add
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >the
> > >
> > >
> > >>>>>igniter charge, and touch it off with an igniter.
> > >>>>>http://www.rogerhalstead.com/ham_files/ground.htm
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>It would appear that I am looking at 12-15 ground rod welds, plus
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >maybe
> > >
> > >
> > >>>>some rebar welds, that's a lot of disposable "one shots"! ;-)
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>I now have some where around 33. I lost track. <:-)) Purchasing them
> by
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>the
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>carton they are roughtly $10 each. There are 12 per carton and of
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >course
> > >
> > >
> > >>>the price break comes at 13. IF they have to order them they are
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >available
> > >
> > >
> > >>>only by the carton, at least around here.
> > >>>
> > >>>Of course $200 worth of one shots is a lot less than a $900 welder,
let
> > >>>alone a $4000 welder.
> > >>>Then, unless you are already a welder, you have to learn how to use
the
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>darn
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>thing.
> > >>>
> > >>>Then again you are *almost* guaranteed a good weld if you follow
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>directions
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>with the one shots. They are fast and contain just the proper amount
> of
> > >>>filler and give a joint that would take either a lot of skill or luck
> to
> > >>>match with other forms of welding.
> > >>>
> > >>>There is also the carbon block/form and purchasing the charge in
bulk.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >As
> > >
> > >
> > >>I
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>recall the break even point was around 12 to 15 welds. I would have
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >saved
> > >
> > >
> > >>>money by going that route, but I didn't want to mess with the carbon
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>block,
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>or keeping that much thermite in my shop.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>>>>I will not only be using it for the house and tower-related
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>I would add that using a TIG welder is very much like using an
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>OxyAcetylene
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>>>torch, but the heat is supplied by an arc. The arc supplies the
heat
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>and
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>you
> > >>>
> > >>>I should have noted It's also more concentrated.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>>>feed in the rod just like brazing or torch welding. As with MIG
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>welding
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>you
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>>>need a nice calm day outside.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>So far I am seeing TIG welders for $900. - $4,000! Out of my range
> > >>>>for sure! Perhaps something used/refurbished?
> > >>>>
> > >>>>I have yet to find any reference to copper and references to
> > >>>>only certain models sufficient for aluminum. Hmmm.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>They may not reference it, but any TIG welder that has the heat
> capacity
> > >>>should work on coper and aluminum. You'd probably need to use a
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >different
> > >
> > >
> > >>>cover gas though.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>There are several problems using an arc on Aluminum and copper. As I
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>recall
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>the big difference is between the voltage necessary to establish the
> arc
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>and
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>that required to carry the current to melt the metal. It takes a
*lot*
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >of
> > >
> > >
> > >>>heat (BTUs) to melt Copper and Aluminum copared to steel even though
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >steel
> > >
> > >
> > >>>has a much higher melting point..That is one of the things that
raises
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >the
> > >
> > >
> > >>>price.
> > >>>
> > >>>Also "to me" TIG welding is much more of an art than MIG, or stick
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >welding
> > >
> > >
> > >>>and a class on welding would be a good idea.It usually takes most
> people
> > >>>quite a few hours before they can run a good horizontal bead/weld
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >joining
> > >
> > >
> > >>>two flat plates with any type of welding.
> > >>>
> > >>>I still think your best bet for the ground rods is the one shot
> approach
> > >>>followed by OxyAcetylene. Bernzomatic does make a OxyAcetylene and
> > >>>OxyMapgas torch with tanks the same size as the butane tanks. I
think
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >the
> > >
> > >
> > >>>tanks run on the order of $10 to $12. One tank of Acetylene would
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>probably
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>get you through ... guessing... maybe 6 or so ground rods. I'm not
sure
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>how
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>far the Oxygen would go. They are limited to using a relatively low
> > >>>pressure which means the tanks will probably not last long.
> > >>>
> > >>>To braze the copper cable to a ground rod I'd get a good thick coat
of
> > >>>brasing rod melted to the top of the rod and then using lots of flux
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >work
> > >
> > >
> > >>up
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>through the copper cable, or thouroughly coat the copper with brazing
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >rod
> > >
> > >
> > >>>and then bond the two together. That might be easier.You do have to
be
> > >>>careful as the melting point of coper is close to that of the brazing
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >rod,
> > >
> > >
> > >>>but it can be done. With experience the copper could be brazed to
the
> > >>>ground rod with a secure and good looking joint. Unfortunately
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >experience
> > >
> > >
> > >>>costs money and lots of time, at least for most of us <:-)) To top
> it
> > >>>off, mistakes can be expensive.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>>Guess I need to keep learning and searching
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>We all do. I was counting on that 290 million lottery for my new
floor
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>mill
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>and lathe <:-)) Maybe I should buy tickes next time to increase my
> > >>>chances... slightly?
> > >>>.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>You *might* find a reconditioned TIG, but the ones I've seen were all
> > >>>industrial size units and still expensive. My neighbor is a rep for
> one
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>of
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>the local industrial suppliers which does help a bit <:-))
> > >>>
> > >>>Roger Halstead (K8RI, EN73 & ARRL Life Member)
> > >>>N833R, World's Oldest Debonair (S# CD-2)
> > >>>www.rogerhalstead.com
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>>73, doc kd4e
> > >>>>_______________________________________________
> > >>>>
> > >>>>See: http://www.mscomputer.com for "Self Supporting Towers",
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >"Wireless
> > >
> > >
> > >>>Weather Stations", and lot's more. Call Toll Free, 1-800-333-9041
with
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>any
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>questions and ask for Sherman, W2FLA.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>>_______________________________________________
> > >>>>TowerTalk mailing list
> > >>>>TowerTalk@contesting.com
> > >>>>http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>_______________________________________________
> > >>>
> > >>>See: http://www.mscomputer.com for "Self Supporting Towers",
"Wireless
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>Weather Stations", and lot's more. Call Toll Free, 1-800-333-9041
with
> > >>
> > >>
> > >any
> > >
> > >
> > >>questions and ask for Sherman, W2FLA.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>_______________________________________________
> > >>>TowerTalk mailing list
> > >>>TowerTalk@contesting.com
> > >>>http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>_______________________________________________
> > >>
> > >>See: http://www.mscomputer.com for "Self Supporting Towers",
"Wireless
> > >>
> > >>
> > >Weather Stations", and lot's more. Call Toll Free, 1-800-333-9041 with
> any
> > >questions and ask for Sherman, W2FLA.
> > >
> > >
> > >>_______________________________________________
> > >>TowerTalk mailing list
> > >>TowerTalk@contesting.com
> > >>http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >_______________________________________________
> > >
> > >See: http://www.mscomputer.com for "Self Supporting Towers", "Wireless
> Weather Stations", and lot's more. Call Toll Free, 1-800-333-9041 with
any
> questions and ask for Sherman, W2FLA.
> > >
> > >_______________________________________________
> > >TowerTalk mailing list
> > >TowerTalk@contesting.com
> > >http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> > See: http://www.mscomputer.com for "Self Supporting Towers", "Wireless
> Weather Stations", and lot's more. Call Toll Free, 1-800-333-9041 with
any
> questions and ask for Sherman, W2FLA.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > TowerTalk mailing list
> > TowerTalk@contesting.com
> > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> See: http://www.mscomputer.com for "Self Supporting Towers", "Wireless
> Weather Stations", and lot's more. Call Toll Free, 1-800-333-9041 with
any
> questions and ask for Sherman, W2FLA.
>
> _______________________________________________
> TowerTalk mailing list
> TowerTalk@contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> See: http://www.mscomputer.com for "Self Supporting Towers", "Wireless
Weather Stations", and lot's more. Call Toll Free, 1-800-333-9041 with any
questions and ask for Sherman, W2FLA.
>
> _______________________________________________
> TowerTalk mailing list
> TowerTalk@contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
>
_______________________________________________
See: http://www.mscomputer.com for "Self Supporting Towers", "Wireless Weather
Stations", and lot's more. Call Toll Free, 1-800-333-9041 with any questions
and ask for Sherman, W2FLA.
_______________________________________________
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