Tnx to all who replied. Im attempting to revive the JK Bev-Flex
antenna, I tested a few years ago. But am dealing with a bum wrist and
shoulder, so am researching it in the meantime. Hopefully in a few
weeks I will be functioning again.
ISSUE: No sigs heard with the 300 ft Bev-Flex on the grass, to my
7610. So I raised it to 5 ft. Sigs began to happen at that point and
it was functional on 160. But my existing SAL30 rx antenna was better.
Now in mt phase 2 trials I will add a preamp and give the BevFlex
another shot.
Some of the YT videos show good promise.
Bob
-----------------------------------------From:
topband-request@contesting.com
To: topband@contesting.com
Cc:
Sent: Monday January 4 2021 10:06:51AM
Subject: Topband Digest, Vol 217, Issue 8
Send Topband mailing list submissions to
topband@contesting.com
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/topband
/> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
topband-request@contesting.com
You can reach the person managing the list at
topband-owner@contesting.com
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Topband digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Re: Topband Digest, Vol 217, Issue 5 (Alan Swinger)
2. 300' Bog (Larry)
3. Re: 300' Bog (Mike Waters)
4. Re: 300' Bog (Mike Waters)
5. Beverages and Noise (Roger Kennedy)
6. Re: Beverages and Noise (Paul Mcl)
7. Beverages and Noise (Roger Kennedy)
8. Re: Beverages and Noise (CUTTER DAVID)
9. W6 to EU openings last night (Richard (Rick) Karlquist)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2021 18:07:03 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
From: Alan Swinger
To: Sam Josuweit , W3HKK@roadrunner.com,
topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: Topband Digest, Vol 217, Issue 5
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Can't comment on BOGs, but installed a JK BevFlex-4 COAX Beverage -
500 ft long - a few yrs ago. It runs E-W and have found the
performance to be UNDERWHELMING! I use my K9AY Loop more often with my
K3 in Diversity mode than the JKBev when working DX!? Any comments
welcome.
73 and HNY - Alan K9MBQ
-----Original Message-----
>From: Sam Josuweit
>Sent: Jan 3, 2021 5:48 PM
>To: W3HKK@roadrunner.com, topband@contesting.com
>Subject: Re: Topband: Topband Digest, Vol 217, Issue 5
>
>Hi Bob,
>
>I'm currently running 4 Bogs with a switching system. The lengths
are
>220-250 feet, and I believe the optimal length really depends on
your
>ground. With 700 feet of good quality coax RG6/RG11 and good
transformers,
>the preamp in my rig is enough, but a preamp in field would not
hurt. They
>are quiet and directional. I use them because my land is shaped like
a long
>rectangle and in some directions I don't have enough room for a full
length
>beverage. They are almost invisible, which makes the XYL happy. I
take them
>down in the summer so I can mow the fields. They do not work as well
as a
>normal full sized beverage, but they do work. Do some searching on
youtube
>and you will see some A/B comparisons that are helpful.
>
>Sam(N3XZ)
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Topband
[mailto:topband-bounces+samjos=epix.net@contesting.com] On
>Behalf Of W3HKK@roadrunner.com
>Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2021 3:01 PM
>To: 'topband@contesting.com'
>Subject: Re: Topband: Topband Digest, Vol 217, Issue 5
>
>anyone with experience using a 300' BOG? Suggestions based on your
>experience?
>
>ie are they worth it?
>
>I tried one before but without a preamp and found it worthless. (
>almost no signals heard)
>suggestions on best preamps? With all in good working order, what
>benefits do they provide? Comparable to a longer Beverage?
>
>Tnx
>
>Bob
>
> -----------------------------------------From:
>topband-request@contesting.com
>To: topband@contesting.com
>Cc:
>Sent: Sunday January 3 2021 11:59:27AM
>Subject: Topband Digest, Vol 217, Issue 5
>
> Send Topband mailing list submissions to
> topband@contesting.com
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/topband
/> > /> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> topband-request@contesting.com
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> topband-owner@contesting.com
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Topband digest..."
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Influence of ground water level on vertical performance.
> (Henk Remijn PA5KT)
> 2. Need Ideas For "Fusing" Beverages From Falling Trees (Randy)
> 3. Re: (2wire) Beverage transformers (HA3LN)
> 4. Re: (2wire) Beverage transformers (HA3LN)
> 5. Re: (2wire) Beverage transformers (HA3LN)
> 6. Re: (2wire) Beverage transformers (HA3LN)
> 7. Re: Need Ideas For "Fusing" Beverages From Falling Trees
> (Glenn kd0q)
> 8. Re: Need Ideas For "Fusing" Beverages From Falling Trees
> (MU 4CX250B)
> 9. Re: Need Ideas For "Fusing" Beverages From Falling Trees
> (VE6WZ_Steve)
> 10. Need Ideas For "Fusing" Beverages From Falling Trees
> (Roger Parsons)
> 11. Re: Need Ideas For "Fusing" Beverages From Falling Trees
> (Mark Robinson)
> 12. Re: Need Ideas For "Fusing" Beverages From Falling Trees
> (Mark - N5OT)
> 13. Re: Need Ideas For "Fusing" Beverages From Falling Trees
> (CUTTER DAVID)
>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2021 11:03:14 +0100
> From: Henk Remijn PA5KT
> To: topband@contesting.com
> Subject: Topband: Influence of ground water level on vertical
> performance.
> Message-ID:
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>
> Hi,
>
> I am searching for info about influence of ground water level on
> vertical performance.
>
> Any info or references to articles is welcome.
>
> 73 Henk PA5KT
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2021 11:54:30 +0000 (UTC)
> From: Randy
> To: topband@contesting.com
> Subject: Topband: Need Ideas For "Fusing" Beverages From Falling
>Trees
> Message-ID:
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> I have several 600 foot beverages made of WD-1A mil wire that run
>through heavy woods.? They can handle the random falling branch but
>when a large tree falls over them they break.? The wire is held in
>place with electric fence plastic insulators that are nailed to
trees
>every 100 feet.?I would like to add a smaller diameter wire to each
>insulator to act as a "fuse" when a tree falls across them.? I am
>looking for ideas as to the best way to do this.? Maybe a number 26
>wire?? The wire size has to be heavy enough to support the wire in
>normal use but weak enough to break when hit by a
>tree.?Suggestions??73?Randy W9ZR
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2021 14:52:11 +0100
> From: HA3LN
> To: Don Kirk , Lee STRAHAN
> Cc: Mike Waters , topband
> Subject: Re: Topband: (2wire) Beverage transformers
> Message-ID:
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>
> Hi All,
>
> Yes, I refer to this 2-wire design:
> http://ha3ln.hu/2wire.jpg
/> > />
> 73!
> Csaba
>
> On 2021-01-02 22:53, Don Kirk wrote:
> > Hi Lee,
> >
> > Csaba also refers to this transformer as T2 and based on what he
>has said
> > so far I suspect he is constructing something similar to the two
>direction
> > beverage shown in figure 7-115 in the 5th edition of Low-Band
>DXing. And
> > T2 is indeed a two winding transformer with center tap. This
>transformer
> > transforms the impedance of the open wire transmission line (745
>ohms in
> > Csabas case) to the coaxial feedline (75 or 50 ohm). The center
tap
>is
> > used to feed another transformer (T1).
> >
> > I could be wrong but reading between the lines I probably am
>correct.
> >
> > Just FYI,
> > Don (wd8dsb)
> >
> > On Sat, Jan 2, 2021 at 4:09 PM Don Kirk wrote:
> >
> >> Hi Lee,
> >>
> >> Csaba said his transformer was " n1=3T/n2=12T tapped @6T ". This
>sure
> >> sounds like a transformer with two separate windings (3 Turns on
>the
> >> Primary, and 12 Turns on the Secondary and then it also has a
>center tap on
> >> the secondary), but I could be wrong. I think Csaba needs to
>clarify
> >> exactly what his transformer is, and his test circuit.
> >>
> >> Don (wd8dsb)
> >>
> >> On Sat, Jan 2, 2021 at 3:22 PM Lee STRAHAN wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hi Mike,
> >>> Assuming that you did not miss that this was a tapped winding
and
>not
> >>> separate windings as Csaba mentioned. I see on reflection that
he
>measured
> >>> 1:1.16 on one of his tests. In reality it wont likely get much
>better than
> >>> that. That test was likely the 3:12 he mentioned using. The
high
>impedance
> >>> side of these transformers are a little unpredictable using
>simple formulas
> >>> with winding capacitance and magnetizing inductance added in
the
>mix.
> >>> Sometimes I use wire wrap wire if it is not going to be used
>outside
> >>> otherwise I use #27 high temp motor winding class insulation
wire
>which
> >>> helps keep from shorting the wires to the core. I have the
>benefit of many
> >>> part spools of motor winding wire scraps from a best friend and
>Ham in the
> >>> Motor rewinding business. By the way, Norton amplifiers require
>1:11:4
> >>> which is the same problem to solve as they are separate
windings
>in the
> >>> ones I use. I also fit shrink tubing in the Norton amp cores
for
>insulation
> >>> first. I don?t use Teflon because it has a dielectric constant
>around 5
> >>> which increases the capacitance from the wire to the core. Its
>tedious but
> >>> can be done easily. And in the case of the Norton amp it leaves
>room for a
> >>> larger wire on the 1 turn winding. Yes 4 AND16 for 20 total can
>be done but
> >>> yes it takes time and lots of patience. For those turns counts
I
>go to # 75
> >>> material toroid cores which have slightly more winding room but
>require
> >>> more turns usually for 160 meter stuff. All this probably more
>than you
> >>> wanted to know. HNY
> >>> Lee K7TJR OR
> >>>
> >>> From: Mike Waters
> >>> Sent: Saturday, January 2, 2021 11:44 AM
> >>> To: Lee K7TJR
> >>> Cc: HA3LN ; topband
> >>> Subject: Re: Topband: (2wire) Beverage transformers
> >>>
> >>> Lee,
> >>>
> >>> What kind of wire do you use that allows that many turns (4t
and
>16t)?
> >>>
> >>> 73 Mike
> >>> W0BTU
> >>>
> >>> On Sat, Jan 2, 2021, 1:37 PM Lee STRAHAN > k7tjr@msn.com>>
wrote:
> >>> Hello Csaba,
> >>> I approach this problem this way your impedance ratio is 745/50
>ohms
> >>> or 14.9 . To get turns ratio use the square root of that which
is
>3.86 . So
> >>> round that up to 4 as a good turns ratio.
> >>> On a BN73-202 core I usually use a minimum of 4 turns on the 50
>ohm
> >>> side for 160 meters, so the secondary would need 4 turns ratio
>times that
> >>> for 16 turns. Therefore 16 turns tapped at 4 turns should work
>for you.
> >>> Some will say the 3 turns on the 50 ohm side should work and
the
>secondary
> >>> then would be turns ratio 4 times that or 12 turns. Therefore
12
>turns
> >>> tapped at 3 turns should work well also. Sorry, I do not follow
>your
> >>> formula as shown but you can use the above and it will work
fine
>as an 800
> >>> ohm load to the 745 ohm source. This will reflect 745/16 or
46.6
>ohms to
> >>> your cable. SWR for that at the 50 ohm cable is 50/46.6 or 1.07
>using
> >>> resistance only for evaluation.
> >>> Lee K7TJR OR
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: Topband > msn.com@contesting.com>> On Behalf Of HA3LN
> >>> Sent: Saturday, January 2, 2021 4:59 AM
> >>> To: topband@contesting.com
> >>> Subject: Topband: (2wire) Beverage transformers
> >>>
> >>> Hi All and HNY for 2021.
> >>>
> >>> Preparing for the CQ160m with new (2 coax) 2-wire beverages to
>cover the
> >>> missing azimuthal gaps based on LBDX. The first 2x Bevs worked
>great back
> >>> in last Jan.
> >>>
> >>> Now I have difficulties with reaching good imped match with the
> >>> T2 transformer (responsible to transform the 745 Ohms wire
>impedance to
> >>> 50 Ohm coax). I use n1=3T/n2=12T tapped @6T transformer (2m
high,
>20cm wide
> >>> with 0.8mm wire)
> >>>
> >>> What can be the reason for the impedance transformation is
rather
>off to
> >>> the calculated value?
> >>>
> >>> This is the T2 transformer from 2019:
> >>> http://ha3ln.hu/VNA_190116_230811.jpg
/> > /> >>> ...and this from yesterday:
> >>> http://ha3ln.hu/VNA_210101_153241.jpg
/> > /> >>>
> >>> I have
> >>> - same wire with the diam (even from the same roll)
> >>> - same BN73-202 cores (tried to use several cores from
different
> >>> sources to eliminate the possible mix inconsistencies)
> >>> - same winding method (including n2 tapping)
> >>> - created a low inductance test resistor network for 744 Ohms
> >>>
> >>> ...tried to wind
> >>> - lousy, and precise (crossing windings vs. side-by-side,
bunched
> >>> wires, etc.)
> >>> - n1 first and n2, after n2 first and n1, of course no
>difference.
> >>> - without the tapping, same as above.
> >>> - difference turning ratios (3/12, 2/12, 1/12, 3/11, etc.) to
see
> >>> the change
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> The best I could reach now on 160m is
> >>> - SWR: 1:1.29 (Rs=40.4 Ohms, Xs=-5.4 Ohms) vs. in 2019:
> >>> - SWR: 1:1.16 (Rs=43.2 Ohms, Xs=-1.6 Ohms)
> >>>
> >>> I know, Beverages are really die hard antennas and this
increased
> >>> mismatch might have zero effect on performance but still, the
>engineer part
> >>> of me...
> >>>
> >>> _________________
> >>> Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband [1] [1]
-
>Topband
> >>> Reflector
> >>>
> >>
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2021 15:44:42 +0100
> From: HA3LN
> To: topband@contesting.com
> Subject: Re: Topband: (2wire) Beverage transformers
> Message-ID:
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>
> Hi Lee,
>
> Thanks for the notes.
>
> Yes, the 1:1.16 measurement was from 2019 which I take as baseline.
>
> My aim was to have similar transformers for the new 2-wire
directions
> but somehow I cannot wind them better than 1:1.29.
>
> I agree with Dave this is not something I could even observe on the
>air.
> As all the materials are exactly the same as last time I was
>interested
> if someone has experience on the reasoning.
>
> But I will use this versions.
>
> Thanks and 73!
> Csaba
>
> On 2021-01-02 23:15, Lee STRAHAN wrote:
> > Hi Don,
> > Regardless of the transformer whether it?s a tapped or separate.
I
>gave him the tools that should make whatever he does correct.
>Personally I keep my Beverage when I make one at 450 ohms which
makes
>the matching much easier for me. I just put up my first one
yesterday
>in several years to test a new brainstorm antenna.
> > From what I saw he had a 1:1.16 SWR which could not get much
better
>in my opinion. Apparently he thought it could be better.
> > All is good HNY
> > Lee K7TJR OR
> >
> >
> > From: Don Kirk
> > Sent: Saturday, January 2, 2021 1:54 PM
> > To: Lee STRAHAN
> > Cc: HA3LN ; Mike Waters ; topband
> > Subject: Re: Topband: (2wire) Beverage transformers
> >
> > Hi Lee,
> >
> > Csaba also refers to this transformer as T2 and based on what he
>has said so far I suspect he is constructing something similar to
the
>two direction beverage shown in figure 7-115 in the 5th edition of
>Low-Band DXing. And T2 is indeed a two winding transformer with
center
>tap. This transformer transforms the impedance of the open wire
>transmission line (745 ohms in Csabas case) to the coaxial feedline
>(75 or 50 ohm). The center tap is used to feed another transformer
>(T1).
> >
> > I could be wrong but reading between the lines I probably am
>correct.
> >
> > Just FYI,
> > Don (wd8dsb)
> >
> > On Sat, Jan 2, 2021 at 4:09 PM Don Kirk wrote:
> > Hi Lee,
> >
> > Csaba said his transformer was " n1=3T/n2=12T tapped @6T ". This
>sure sounds like a transformer with two separate windings (3 Turns
on
>the Primary, and 12 Turns on the Secondary and then it also has a
>center tap on the secondary), but I could be wrong. I think Csaba
>needs to clarify exactly what his transformer is, and his test
>circuit.
> >
> > Don (wd8dsb)
> >
> > On Sat, Jan 2, 2021 at 3:22 PM Lee STRAHAN wrote:
> > Hi Mike,
> > Assuming that you did not miss that this was a tapped winding and
>not separate windings as Csaba mentioned. I see on reflection that
he
>measured 1:1.16 on one of his tests. In reality it wont likely get
>much better than that. That test was likely the 3:12 he mentioned
>using. The high impedance side of these transformers are a little
>unpredictable using simple formulas with winding capacitance and
>magnetizing inductance added in the mix.
> > Sometimes I use wire wrap wire if it is not going to be used
>outside otherwise I use #27 high temp motor winding class insulation
>wire which helps keep from shorting the wires to the core. I have
the
>benefit of many part spools of motor winding wire scraps from a best
>friend and Ham in the Motor rewinding business. By the way, Norton
>amplifiers require 1:11:4 which is the same problem to solve as they
>are separate windings in the ones I use. I also fit shrink tubing in
>the Norton amp cores for insulation first. I don?t use Teflon
because
>it has a dielectric constant around 5 which increases the
capacitance
>from the wire to the core. Its tedious but can be done easily. And
in
>the case of the Norton amp it leaves room for a larger wire on the 1
>turn winding. Yes 4 AND16 for 20 total can be done but yes it takes
>time and lots of patience. For those turns counts I go to # 75
>material toroid cores which have slightly more winding room but
>require more turns usually for 160 meter stuf
> f. All this probably more than you wanted to know. HNY
> > Lee K7TJR OR
> >
> > From: Mike Waters
> > Sent: Saturday, January 2, 2021 11:44 AM
> > To: Lee K7TJR
> > Cc: HA3LN ; topband
> > Subject: Re: Topband: (2wire) Beverage transformers
> >
> > Lee,
> >
> > What kind of wire do you use that allows that many turns (4t and
>16t)?
> >
> > 73 Mike
> > W0BTU
> >
> > On Sat, Jan 2, 2021, 1:37 PM Lee STRAHAN wrote:
> > Hello Csaba,
> > I approach this problem this way your impedance ratio is 745/50
>ohms or 14.9 . To get turns ratio use the square root of that which
is
>3.86 . So round that up to 4 as a good turns ratio.
> > On a BN73-202 core I usually use a minimum of 4 turns on the 50
ohm
>side for 160 meters, so the secondary would need 4 turns ratio times
>that for 16 turns. Therefore 16 turns tapped at 4 turns should work
>for you. Some will say the 3 turns on the 50 ohm side should work
and
>the secondary then would be turns ratio 4 times that or 12 turns.
>Therefore 12 turns tapped at 3 turns should work well also. Sorry, I
>do not follow your formula as shown but you can use the above and it
>will work fine as an 800 ohm load to the 745 ohm source. This will
>reflect 745/16 or 46.6 ohms to your cable. SWR for that at the 50
ohm
>cable is 50/46.6 or 1.07 using resistance only for evaluation.
> > Lee K7TJR OR
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Topband On Behalf Of HA3LN
> > Sent: Saturday, January 2, 2021 4:59 AM
> > To: topband@contesting.com
> > Subject: Topband: (2wire) Beverage transformers
> >
> > Hi All and HNY for 2021.
> >
> > Preparing for the CQ160m with new (2 coax) 2-wire beverages to
>cover the missing azimuthal gaps based on LBDX. The first 2x Bevs
>worked great back in last Jan.
> >
> > Now I have difficulties with reaching good imped match with the
> > T2 transformer (responsible to transform the 745 Ohms wire
>impedance to 50 Ohm coax). I use n1=3T/n2=12T tapped @6T transformer
>(2m high, 20cm wide with 0.8mm wire)
> >
> > What can be the reason for the impedance transformation is rather
>off to the calculated value?
> >
> > This is the T2 transformer from 2019:
> > http://ha3ln.hu/VNA_190116_230811.jpg
/> > /> > ...and this from yesterday:
> > http://ha3ln.hu/VNA_210101_153241.jpg
/> > /> >
> > I have
> > - same wire with the diam (even from the same roll)
> > - same BN73-202 cores (tried to use several cores from different
> > sources to eliminate the possible mix inconsistencies)
> > - same winding method (including n2 tapping)
> > - created a low inductance test resistor network for 744 Ohms
> >
> > ...tried to wind
> > - lousy, and precise (crossing windings vs. side-by-side, bunched
> > wires, etc.)
> > - n1 first and n2, after n2 first and n1, of course no
difference.
> > - without the tapping, same as above.
> > - difference turning ratios (3/12, 2/12, 1/12, 3/11, etc.) to see
> > the change
> >
> >
> > The best I could reach now on 160m is
> > - SWR: 1:1.29 (Rs=40.4 Ohms, Xs=-5.4 Ohms) vs. in 2019:
> > - SWR: 1:1.16 (Rs=43.2 Ohms, Xs=-1.6 Ohms)
> >
> > I know, Beverages are really die hard antennas and this increased
>mismatch might have zero effect on performance but still, the
engineer
>part of me...
> >
> > _________________
> > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband [2] [2] -
>Topband Reflector
> > _________________
> > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband [3] [3] -
>Topband Reflector
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2021 15:45:16 +0100
> From: HA3LN
> To: topband@contesting.com
> Subject: Re: Topband: (2wire) Beverage transformers
> Message-ID:
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>
> ...no problem Lee, actually each new idea helps.
> I'll give a try the n1=4T version with a 0.3mm (~AWG 28/29) wire to
>see
> if I can push a bit better matching.
>
> Sorry for the links I tried to avoid sending fairly large pics to
the
> list directly.
>
> I have the same measurement setup as Don's sent yesterday, the
>loading
> resistors are similar too, soldered them from 2W metal oxide
pieces,
> resulting 744 Ohms, which is within 1 Ohm to the open wire
calculated
>value.
>
> What I see comparing the "old" transformer and the new ones that it
>has
> less linearity and as Don said it has significantly worse Z(s).
>@7MHz.
> It might suggests that the core has different mix which gave the
>higher
> results. I wound as least 15 transformers with ~10 different
BN73-202
> cores from different sources to avoid similar manufacturing batches
>but
> I could not see improvements, so I concluded this as core
independent
> reason.
>
>http://ha3ln.hu/old_new.jpg
/> > /> (green=2020 version, white=2019 transformer version)
> Interesting that the SWR curve minimum inflection point is roughly
> halved, which was @850KHz, it is @400KHz in 2021.
>
> Tried Don's advise to twist the prim/sec ends of both n1 and n2.
> Interestingly enough if I twisted the one made from 0.3mm wire, I
>could
> reach the 1:1.16 measurement values again, but if I did the same to
>one
> made from 0.5mm diam wire it became worse.
>
> 73!
> Csaba
>
> On 2021-01-03 1:06, Lee STRAHAN wrote:
> > Sorry Guys, I miss interpreted Csaba?s transformer problem. My
>email program truncated the URL?s and most of the information past
>that point. What I did get I misread as a result so now I am curious
>also of his dilemma.
> > Lee K7TJR OR
> >
> > From: Don Kirk
> > Sent: Saturday, January 2, 2021 3:03 PM
> > To: Lee STRAHAN
> > Cc: HA3LN ; Mike Waters
> > Subject: Re: Topband: (2wire) Beverage transformers
> >
> > Hi Lee,
> >
> > I don?t think he needed any tools (formulas, etc.), he is just
>trying to figure out why his recently made transformer does match
>closer to one he made a year ago. He too agrees that the SWR with
his
>new transformer is likely not an issue, he is just trying to figure
>out why his new transformer is different than his previous one, and
>that?s why I measured one of my own so he had another data point to
>work with.
> >
> > His transformer from a year ago was 1.16 to 1 whereas his new
>transformer measured 1.29 to 1 and that?s bugging him from an
>obsessive standpoint.
> >
> > The reason I mentioned 2 windings was because of how you
responded
>to Mikes question. I'm really not familiar with reversible beverages
>and jumping into this topic helped me learn a bit about them (I love
>learning).
> >
> > Just FYI, and Happy New Year to you and yours too.
> > Don (wd8dsb)
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Jan 2, 2021 at 5:15 PM Lee STRAHAN wrote:
> > Hi Don,
> > Regardless of the transformer whether it?s a tapped or separate.
I
>gave him the tools that should make whatever he does correct.
>Personally I keep my Beverage when I make one at 450 ohms which
makes
>the matching much easier for me. I just put up my first one
yesterday
>in several years to test a new brainstorm antenna.
> > From what I saw he had a 1:1.16 SWR which could not get much
better
>in my opinion. Apparently he thought it could be better.
> > All is good HNY
> > Lee K7TJR OR
> >
> >
> > From: Don Kirk
> > Sent: Saturday, January 2, 2021 1:54 PM
> > To: Lee STRAHAN
> > Cc: HA3LN ; Mike Waters ; topband
> > Subject: Re: Topband: (2wire) Beverage transformers
> >
> > Hi Lee,
> >
> > Csaba also refers to this transformer as T2 and based on what he
>has said so far I suspect he is constructing something similar to
the
>two direction beverage shown in figure 7-115 in the 5th edition of
>Low-Band DXing. And T2 is indeed a two winding transformer with
center
>tap. This transformer transforms the impedance of the open wire
>transmission line (745 ohms in Csabas case) to the coaxial feedline
>(75 or 50 ohm). The center tap is used to feed another transformer
>(T1).
> >
> > I could be wrong but reading between the lines I probably am
>correct.
> >
> > Just FYI,
> > Don (wd8dsb)
> >
> > On Sat, Jan 2, 2021 at 4:09 PM Don Kirk wrote:
> > Hi Lee,
> >
> > Csaba said his transformer was " n1=3T/n2=12T tapped @6T ". This
>sure sounds like a transformer with two separate windings (3 Turns
on
>the Primary, and 12 Turns on the Secondary and then it also has a
>center tap on the secondary), but I could be wrong. I think Csaba
>needs to clarify exactly what his transformer is, and his test
>circuit.
> >
> > Don (wd8dsb)
> >
> > On Sat, Jan 2, 2021 at 3:22 PM Lee STRAHAN wrote:
> > Hi Mike,
> > Assuming that you did not miss that this was a tapped winding and
>not separate windings as Csaba mentioned. I see on reflection that
he
>measured 1:1.16 on one of his tests. In reality it wont likely get
>much better than that. That test was likely the 3:12 he mentioned
>using. The high impedance side of these transformers are a little
>unpredictable using simple formulas with winding capacitance and
>magnetizing inductance added in the mix.
> > Sometimes I use wire wrap wire if it is not going to be used
>outside otherwise I use #27 high temp motor winding class insulation
>wire which helps keep from shorting the wires to the core. I have
the
>benefit of many part spools of motor winding wire scraps from a best
>friend and Ham in the Motor rewinding business. By the way, Norton
>amplifiers require 1:11:4 which is the same problem to solve as they
>are separate windings in the ones I use. I also fit shrink tubing in
>the Norton amp cores for insulation first. I don?t use Teflon
because
>it has a dielectric constant around 5 which increases the
capacitance
>from the wire to the core. Its tedious but can be done easily. And
in
>the case of the Norton amp it leaves room for a larger wire on the 1
>turn winding. Yes 4 AND16 for 20 total can be done but yes it takes
>time and lots of patience. For those turns counts I go to # 75
>material toroid cores which have slightly more winding room but
>require more turns usually for 160 meter stuf
> f. All this probably more than you wanted to know. HNY
> > Lee K7TJR OR
> >
> > From: Mike Waters
> > Sent: Saturday, January 2, 2021 11:44 AM
> > To: Lee K7TJR
> > Cc: HA3LN ; topband
> > Subject: Re: Topband: (2wire) Beverage transformers
> >
> > Lee,
> >
> > What kind of wire do you use that allows that many turns (4t and
>16t)?
> >
> > 73 Mike
> > W0BTU
> >
> > On Sat, Jan 2, 2021, 1:37 PM Lee STRAHAN wrote:
> > Hello Csaba,
> > I approach this problem this way your impedance ratio is 745/50
>ohms or 14.9 . To get turns ratio use the square root of that which
is
>3.86 . So round that up to 4 as a good turns ratio.
> > On a BN73-202 core I usually use a minimum of 4 turns on the 50
ohm
>side for 160 meters, so the secondary would need 4 turns ratio times
>that for 16 turns. Therefore 16 turns tapped at 4 turns should work
>for you. Some will say the 3 turns on the 50 ohm side should work
and
>the secondary then would be turns ratio 4 times that or 12 turns.
>Therefore 12 turns tapped at 3 turns should work well also. Sorry, I
>do not follow your formula as shown but you can use the above and it
>will work fine as an 800 ohm load to the 745 ohm source. This will
>reflect 745/16 or 46.6 ohms to your cable. SWR for that at the 50
ohm
>cable is 50/46.6 or 1.07 using resistance only for evaluation.
> > Lee K7TJR OR
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Topband On Behalf Of HA3LN
> > Sent: Saturday, January 2, 2021 4:59 AM
> > To: topband@contesting.com
> > Subject: Topband: (2wire) Beverage transformers
> >
> > Hi All and HNY for 2021.
> >
> > Preparing for the CQ160m with new (2 coax) 2-wire beverages to
>cover the missing azimuthal gaps based on LBDX. The first 2x Bevs
>worked great back in last Jan.
> >
> > Now I have difficulties with reaching good imped match with the
> > T2 transformer (responsible to transform the 745 Ohms wire
>impedance to 50 Ohm coax). I use n1=3T/n2=12T tapped @6T transformer
>(2m high, 20cm wide with 0.8mm wire)
> >
> > What can be the reason for the impedance transformation is rather
>off to the calculated value?
> >
> > This is the T2 transformer from 2019:
> > http://ha3ln.hu/VNA_190116_230811.jpg
/> > /> > ...and this from yesterday:
> > http://ha3ln.hu/VNA_210101_153241.jpg
/> > /> >
> > I have
> > - same wire with the diam (even from the same roll)
> > - same BN73-202 cores (tried to use several cores from different
> > sources to eliminate the possible mix inconsistencies)
> > - same winding method (including n2 tapping)
> > - created a low inductance test resistor network for 744 Ohms
> >
> > ...tried to wind
> > - lousy, and precise (crossing windings vs. side-by-side, bunched
> > wires, etc.)
> > - n1 first and n2, after n2 first and n1, of course no
difference.
> > - without the tapping, same as above.
> > - difference turning ratios (3/12, 2/12, 1/12, 3/11, etc.) to see
> > the change
> >
> >
> > The best I could reach now on 160m is
> > - SWR: 1:1.29 (Rs=40.4 Ohms, Xs=-5.4 Ohms) vs. in 2019:
> > - SWR: 1:1.16 (Rs=43.2 Ohms, Xs=-1.6 Ohms)
> >
> > I know, Beverages are really die hard antennas and this increased
>mismatch might have zero effect on performance but still, the
engineer
>part of me...
> >
> > _________________
> > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband [4] [4] -
>Topband Reflector
> > _________________
> > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband [5] [5] -
>Topband Reflector
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2021 15:51:56 +0100
> From: HA3LN
> To: topband@contesting.com
> Subject: Re: Topband: (2wire) Beverage transformers
> Message-ID:
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>
> ...thanks Luke, then I stop gold plating... ;-)
>
> One of the new directions is pointing dedicated to VK/ZL
> hope I can catch you in the CQ160m.
>
> 73!
> Csaba
>
> On 2021-01-03 1:39, List Mail wrote:
> > "The best I could reach now on 160m is
> > - SWR: 1:1.29 (Rs=40.4 Ohms, Xs=-5.4 Ohms)
> > vs. in 2019:
> > - SWR: 1:1.16 (Rs=43.2 Ohms, Xs=-1.6 Ohms)"
> >
> >
> > If I can get those matches on a *transmitting* antenna, I am very
> > satisfied!
> >
> > I built three 2-wire beverages using W0BTU's design (single coax)
>and
> > measured best SWR around 1.5:1 and didn't give it a second
thought.
>They
> > are all 269 m long, using 2.5 mm galvanised high-tensile fencing
>wire.
> > They work!
> >
> > 73, Luke VK3HJ
> > _________________
> > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband [6] [6] -
>Topband Reflector
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2021 08:59:52 -0600
> From: Glenn kd0q
> To: Randy
> Cc: Top Band Contesting
> Subject: Re: Topband: Need Ideas For "Fusing" Beverages From
Falling
> Trees
> Message-ID:
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> Hi Randy,
>
> I have the same situation here and I use 20 GA solid hookup wire
for
>the
> "fuse" with about 10 turns wrapped around itself at the insulators.
> Sometimes the wire breaks, sometimes it comes unwrapped. I use butt
>splice
> crimp connectors on the WD-1A at the "fuse" as they are quick and
>easy to
> replace. One size smaller wire might be good too but I haven't had
to
> splice the WD-1A yet. We had a derecho here last August that
>basically
> flattened my timber. The WD-1A is still good but buried under
>countless
> blown down trees.
>
> 73, Glenn KD0Q
>
> On Sun, Jan 3, 2021 at 5:54 AM Randy via Topband
> wrote:
>
> >
> > I have several 600 foot beverages made of WD-1A mil wire that run
>through
> > heavy woods. They can handle the random falling branch but when a
>large
> > tree falls over them they break. The wire is held in place with
>electric
> > fence plastic insulators that are nailed to trees every 100 feet.
I
>would
> > like to add a smaller diameter wire to each insulator to act as a
>"fuse"
> > when a tree falls across them. I am looking for ideas as to the
>best way
> > to do this. Maybe a number 26 wire? The wire size has to be heavy
>enough
> > to support the wire in normal use but weak enough to break when
hit
>by a
> > tree. Suggestions? 73 Randy W9ZR
> > _________________
> > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband [7] [7] -
>Topband
> > Reflector
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2021 10:21:06 -0500
> From: MU 4CX250B
> To: Randy
> Cc: topband@contesting.com
> Subject: Re: Topband: Need Ideas For "Fusing" Beverages From
Falling
> Trees
> Message-ID:
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> Hi Randy,
> My 720ft beverages (also made of WD1a strung between ceramic
> insulstors) have short lengths (12 inches or so) of 26 AWG wire
that
> act as fuses. Each end of the wire is stapled to the 4 x 4 post at
>the
> vertex of the beverages. This fuse wire is recommended by DX
> Engineerimg to protect the front end of receivers from induced
> currents caused by nearby lightning strikes. It does not provide
> protection from falling branches or, here in New Mexico, from
falling
> cacti or wandering bobcats.
>
> However, to me, a mechanical fuse link seems reasonable. As I
recall,
> WD1a is a twisted pair of wires with a rated breaking strength
>greater
> than 200 lbs. A short conveniently placed segment of just one of
the
> conductors would have half the breaking strength, and would be the
> likely breaking point if a tree or large branch fell on the
antenna.
> 73,
> Jim w8zr
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Jan 3, 2021, at 4:54 AM, Randy via Topband wrote:
> >
> > ?
> > I have several 600 foot beverages made of WD-1A mil wire that run
>through heavy woods. They can handle the random falling branch but
>when a large tree falls over them they break. The wire is held in
>place with electric fence plastic insulators that are nailed to
trees
>every 100 feet. I would like to add a smaller diameter wire to each
>insulator to act as a "fuse" when a tree falls across them. I am
>looking for ideas as to the best way to do this. Maybe a number 26
>wire? The wire size has to be heavy enough to support the wire in
>normal use but weak enough to break when hit by a tree. Suggestions?
>73 Randy W9ZR
> > _________________
> > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband [8] [8] -
>Topband Reflector
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2021 09:02:33 -0700
> From: VE6WZ_Steve
> To: Randy
> Cc: topband@contesting.com
> Subject: Re: Topband: Need Ideas For "Fusing" Beverages From
Falling
> Trees
> Message-ID:
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> Randy,
>
> I have 15 Beverage wires that average about 900? long. About 2.5
>miles of wire. All the wires are in dense, old growth forest.
> I have trees falling ALL the time. Every wire has a counterweight
>concrete block pulley system to prevent breakage.
> When a tree falls on a wire (about twice a month), the wire does
not
>break, and a quick trip with the chain saw to remove the tree
recovers
>the wire.
>
> You may not be a ?video guy? but I made a YouTube that shows the
>detail of how I install it and how they work:
>https://youtu.be/l91JL2ImEbk [9] [9]
> />
> And here is a short video showing it in action:
> https://youtu.be/GEkA9Hzrwas [10] [10]
> />
> Also, for those that have larger Beverage installations, this video
>explains how I use my antenna analyzer to sweep my wires at any time
>(even remotely) and by comparing the seep to saved files, I know if
a
>wire is down.
> This is NOT a trivial problem. With my Beverage field, to walk and
>check all the wires, I would need to walk about 8 miles through
heavy
>bush! This would take the better part of a day.
> Before a contest, in 5 minutes, I can check all 15 wires and know
if
>there is a tree down or broken term or feed.
> https://youtu.be/PA67Tz-1TO4 [11] [11]
> />
>
> 73, de steve ve6wz
>
> > On Jan 3, 2021, at 4:54 AM, Randy via Topband wrote:
> >
> >
> > I have several 600 foot beverages made of WD-1A mil wire that run
>through heavy woods. They can handle the random falling branch but
>when a large tree falls over them they break. The wire is held in
>place with electric fence plastic insulators that are nailed to
trees
>every 100 feet. I would like to add a smaller diameter wire to each
>insulator to act as a "fuse" when a tree falls across them. I am
>looking for ideas as to the best way to do this. Maybe a number 26
>wire? The wire size has to be heavy enough to support the wire in
>normal use but weak enough to break when hit by a tree. Suggestions?
>73 Randy W9ZR
> > _________________
> > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband [12] [12]
-
>Topband Reflector
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2021 16:14:57 +0000 (UTC)
> From: Roger Parsons
> To: Topband
> Subject: Topband: Need Ideas For "Fusing" Beverages From Falling
>Trees
> Message-ID:
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> I have had good success (mostly) following W8JI's recommendations
in
>a similar situtation with over 30000 ft of Beverages in very rough
>woodland:
>
> Use electric fence insulators nailed to trees, but allow the wire
to
>pass freely through them;
> Fix only at the extremes of the antenna;
> Use a very strong wire - this is where I diverge from Tom because I
>find that WD1A is perfect for Beverages - but not bidirectional
ones.
>Electric fence wire is probably OK too - and that is W8JI's
>recommendation.
>
> At the end points I use an egg insulator and a length of thin
Dacron
>rope.
> WD1A has a major advantage for testing purposes - I make each wire
>off separately to a single connection point, and this? allows
>resistance measurements to be made from either end of the run to
>confirm its continuity.
>
> This arrangement allows the wire to withstand several large trees
>falling along its length (1000 ft) - and the antennas keep working.
>
> 73 Roger
> VE3ZI
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2021 11:38:03 -0500
> From: Mark Robinson
> To: Randy , 'topband'
> Subject: Re: Topband: Need Ideas For "Fusing" Beverages From
Falling
> Trees
> Message-ID:
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>
> I use 1/4 inch AMP spade connectors , male and female as a
breakaway
> point on my open wire feeder. I greased them up with dielectric
>grease
> to keep the water out.?? Automotive bullet connectors might be a
>tighter fit
>
> 73 Mark N1UK
>
> On 03-Jan-21 6:54 AM, Randy via Topband wrote:
> > I have several 600 foot beverages made of WD-1A mil wire that run
>through heavy woods.? They can handle the random falling branch but
>when a large tree falls over them they break.? The wire is held in
>place with electric fence plastic insulators that are nailed to
trees
>every 100 feet.?I would like to add a smaller diameter wire to each
>insulator to act as a "fuse" when a tree falls across them.? I am
>looking for ideas as to the best way to do this.? Maybe a number 26
>wire?? The wire size has to be heavy enough to support the wire in
>normal use but weak enough to break when hit by a
>tree.?Suggestions??73?Randy W9ZR
> > _________________
> > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband [13] [13]
-
>Topband Reflector
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2021 10:52:57 -0600
> From: Mark - N5OT
> To: TopBand List
> Subject: Re: Topband: Need Ideas For "Fusing" Beverages From
Falling
> Trees
> Message-ID:
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>
> > This arrangement allows the wire to withstand several large trees
> falling along its length (1000 ft) - and the antennas keep working.
>
> Strange as it sounds, (living where I live and all that), sometimes
> during an ice storm all you really want to do is get on the air and
>play
> radio.? Can't really go out with the chainsaw while it's
happening.?
> That's for later.
>
> I am liking the counterweight approach as what I may use if I put
up
> long wires like that.
>
> 73 - Mark N5OT
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 13
> Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2021 16:57:30 +0000 (GMT)
> From: CUTTER DAVID
> To: Mark Robinson , Randy ,
> topband
> Subject: Re: Topband: Need Ideas For "Fusing" Beverages From
Falling
> Trees
> Message-ID:
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> Mark
> I like that idea the best. I would tie the parts together with a
long
>piece of rot-proof cord so they don't get lost.
>
> David G3UNA/G6CP
>
> > On 03 January 2021 at 16:38 Mark Robinson wrote:
> >
> >
> > I use 1/4 inch AMP spade connectors , male and female as a
>breakaway
> > point on my open wire feeder. I greased them up with dielectric
>grease
> > to keep the water out.?? Automotive bullet connectors might be a
>tighter fit
> >
> > 73 Mark N1UK
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
> _______________________________________________
> Topband mailing list
> Topband@contesting.com
>http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/topband
/> > />
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of Topband Digest, Vol 217, Issue 5
> ***************************************
>
>
>Links:
>------
>[1] http://www.contesting.com/_topband
/> >[2] http://www.contesting.com/_topband
/> >[3] http://www.contesting.com/_topband
/> >[4] http://www.contesting.com/_topband
/> >[5] http://www.contesting.com/_topband
/> >[6] http://www.contesting.com/_topband
/> >[7] http://www.contesting.com/_topband
/> >[8] http://www.contesting.com/_topband
/> >[9] https://youtu.be/l91JL2ImEbk
/> >[10] https://youtu.be/GEkA9Hzrwas
/> >[11] https://youtu.be/PA67Tz-1TO4
/> >[12] http://www.contesting.com/_topband
/> >[13] http://www.contesting.com/_topband
/> >
>_________________
>Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband [14] -
Topband Reflector
>
>
>_________________
>Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband [15] -
Topband Reflector
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Sun, 03 Jan 2021 23:48:14 +0000
From: Larry
To: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Topband: 300' Bog
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
BOGs are highly ground dependent; At my QTH, they work well, and
while the signal level is significantly lower than the 850' BAG I run
toward the South BOGs show good directionality and selectivity.
Variation in soil moisture content affect performance as does the
presence of wet leaves on top of them. I use the preamp in my
transceiver with good results.
Larry W8ANT
Date: Sun, 03 Jan 2021 20:01:16 +0000
From: W3HKK@roadrunner.com
To: "'topband@contesting.com'"
Subject: Re: Topband: Topband Digest, Vol 217, Issue 5
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
anyone with experience using a 300' BOG? Suggestions based on your
experience?
ie are they worth it?
I tried one before but without a preamp and found it worthless. (
almost no signals heard)
suggestions on best preamps? With all in good working order, what
benefits do they provide? Comparable to a longer Beverage?
Tnx
Bob
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2021 19:13:58 -0600
From: Mike Waters
To: topband@contesting.com
Cc: W3HKK@roadrunner.com
Subject: Re: Topband: 300' Bog
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Not to be overlooked is that there is much information and
experiences
about BOGs in the searchable archives here.
I see folks asking about various other subjects, and the replies are
often
not near as useful as what was previously answered. That link at the
bottom
of this and every post here is our friend! :-)
I suggest starting by entering BOG K2AV in the search box there. What
you
find useful, post a link to it here.
I agree that a 300' BOG ?laid directly on the earth, not resting on
grass
or weeds? is usually too long for 160m.
73 Mike
W0BTU
Date: Sun, 03 Jan 2021 20:01:16 +0000
> From: W3HKK@roadrunner.com
> To: "'topband@contesting.com'"
> Subject: Re: Topband: Topband Digest, Vol 217, Issue 5
>
> anyone with experience using a 300' BOG? Suggestions based on your
> experience?
>
> ie are they worth it?
>
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2021 19:22:52 -0600
From: Mike Waters
To: Larry
Cc: topband , W3HKK@roadrunner.com
Subject: Re: Topband: 300' Bog
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Good answer, Larry! Lots of previous, searchable info by Guy, K2AV
and
other 160m antenna gurus go into that in more detail.
Bob, a popular preamp ?that I also built and use? is the W7IUV single
bipolar transistor one. Somebody sells it as a kit. I have a 2K pot
and
series-parallel 1N914 protection diodes from the input to ground.
73 Mike
W0BTU
On Sun, Jan 3, 2021, 5:49 PM Larry wrote:
> BOGs are highly ground dependent; At my QTH, they work well, and
while
> the signal level is significantly lower than the 850' BAG I run
toward the
> South BOGs show good directionality and selectivity. Variation in
soil
> moisture content affect performance as does the presence of wet
leaves on
> top of them. I use the preamp in my transceiver with good results.
>
> Larry W8ANT
>
> Date: Sun, 03 Jan 2021 20:01:16 +0000
> From: W3HKK@roadrunner.com
> To: "'topband@contesting.com'"
> Subject: Re: Topband: Topband Digest, Vol 217, Issue 5
> Message-ID:
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> anyone with experience using a 300' BOG? Suggestions based on your
> experience?
>
> ie are they worth it?
>
> I tried one before but without a preamp and found it worthless. (
> almost no signals heard)
> suggestions on best preamps? With all in good working order, what
> benefits do they provide? Comparable to a longer Beverage?
>
> Tnx
>
> Bob
>
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2021 12:03:06 -0000
From: "Roger Kennedy"
To:
Subject: Topband: Beverages and Noise
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
The major source of noise on Top Band (and 80 & 40m) here in Britain
these
days comes from VDSL Broadband hash. The problem is that almost every
house
has an overhead copper phone line going to it . . . so the Service
Provider
runs Fibre-optic lines to a Cabinet in the street . . . but then uses
the
ordinary un-screened cables phone cables that run up the wooden
Telegraph
Poles, then across to about ten houses . . . and the same all along
the
street.
Those phone wires act as fantastic antennas radiating the hash! I
have found
with my 160m Mobile setup that you have to get a couple of miles from
any
phone wires before the noise level starts to drop - which is almost
impossible !
I have been told that the Service Providers COULD turn off the
carriers that
are in the various Amateur Bands, which would eliminate the problem .
. .
but they refuse to do so, as that would obviously reduce customers'
broadband speeds. Despite numerous complaints to the Regulator
(OFCOM)
nothing has been done, as the Service Provider denies that there is a
problem !
Many people have S9+ noise levels from the VDSL . . . I'm lucky in
that this
is a new street, so the phone cables are underground . . . but there
are
still overhead wires at the end of the street, 100 yards away, which
gives
me an S6 noise level in an SSB bandwidth. (my Receiving Loop in the
loft is
turned to null out the noise, but only drops it about 6dB . . .
fortunately
that's pointing East-West, which is a pretty good direction for most
DX)
So my question is this . . . surely even a Beverage is going to pick
up this
hash, as it will always be pointing at some phone wires?
I know very few British Topband DXers can put up a Beverage, as most
of us
have pretty small gardens (myself included, so this is a purely
academic
question) . . . but would be interested to hear any comments.
Roger G3YRO
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2021 12:33:40 +0000
From: Paul Mcl
To: Roger Kennedy
Cc: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: Beverages and Noise
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Roger,
It?s not just the VDSL noise but the SMPSU?s as well that give me
grief
round here. VDSL affected 30m most as I have overhead poles in my
back
garden so limited option to escape. VDSL cabinet was a street away.
I found the RX loop (Wellbrook) worked poorly near the house and put
it
outside where it performed much better also with a rotator but agree
EW
would be my preference if I had to choose a fixed position.
I also tried with 2 short terminated beverages each 40m long running
along
a garden wall EW. They worked ok and complimented the RX loop to give
me
better coverage. I can?t say they were excellent as comparing in a
noise
free option was a choose but I used them for a couple of seasons
before I
changed to remote RX in a field a couple of hundred metres away using
a
WiFi link where I put out 2 x 200m long beverages in a lot quieter
location.
It might vary at your QTH but worth trying as putting up a short
beverage
temporarily to try as it won?t break the bank.
Regards
Paul MM0ZBH
On Mon, 4 Jan 2021 at 12:03, Roger Kennedy
wrote:
>
> The major source of noise on Top Band (and 80 & 40m) here in
Britain these
> days comes from VDSL Broadband hash. The problem is that almost
every house
> has an overhead copper phone line going to it . . . so the Service
Provider
> runs Fibre-optic lines to a Cabinet in the street . . . but then
uses the
> ordinary un-screened cables phone cables that run up the wooden
Telegraph
> Poles, then across to about ten houses . . . and the same all along
the
> street.
>
> Those phone wires act as fantastic antennas radiating the hash! I
have
> found
> with my 160m Mobile setup that you have to get a couple of miles
from any
> phone wires before the noise level starts to drop - which is almost
> impossible !
>
> I have been told that the Service Providers COULD turn off the
carriers
> that
> are in the various Amateur Bands, which would eliminate the problem
. . .
> but they refuse to do so, as that would obviously reduce customers'
> broadband speeds. Despite numerous complaints to the Regulator
(OFCOM)
> nothing has been done, as the Service Provider denies that there is
a
> problem !
>
> Many people have S9+ noise levels from the VDSL . . . I'm lucky in
that
> this
> is a new street, so the phone cables are underground . . . but
there are
> still overhead wires at the end of the street, 100 yards away,
which gives
> me an S6 noise level in an SSB bandwidth. (my Receiving Loop in the
loft is
> turned to null out the noise, but only drops it about 6dB . . .
fortunately
> that's pointing East-West, which is a pretty good direction for
most DX)
>
> So my question is this . . . surely even a Beverage is going to
pick up
> this
> hash, as it will always be pointing at some phone wires?
>
> I know very few British Topband DXers can put up a Beverage, as
most of us
> have pretty small gardens (myself included, so this is a purely
academic
> question) . . . but would be interested to hear any comments.
>
> Roger G3YRO
>
>
> _________________
> Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband [16] -
Topband
> Reflector
>
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2021 12:48:35 -0000
From: "Roger Kennedy"
To:
Cc: "'Paul Mcl'"
Subject: Topband: Beverages and Noise
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Sadly Paul I have no space to put up any kind of Beverage . . .
Even my 160m Half Wave Dipole runs outside my property !
73 Roger G3YRO
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2021 13:25:59 +0000 (GMT)
From: CUTTER DAVID
To: Paul Mcl , Roger Kennedy
Cc: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: Beverages and Noise
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
There are some interesting things going on in the Cross Country
Wireless group with phased loops. Look for Simon about half way down
this link:
https://groups.io/g/CrossCountryWireless/topic/79362931#7537
/>
He tells us that he works across the pond on his multi-turn transmit
loop and now has 4 phased loops for receive working very well in his
crowded London area.
David G3UNA/G6CP
> On 04 January 2021 at 12:33 Paul Mcl wrote:
>
>
> Roger,
>
> It?s not just the VDSL noise but the SMPSU?s as well that give me
grief
> round here. VDSL affected 30m most as I have overhead poles in my
back
> garden so limited option to escape. VDSL cabinet was a street away.
>
> I found the RX loop (Wellbrook) worked poorly near the house and
put it
> outside where it performed much better also with a rotator but
agree EW
> would be my preference if I had to choose a fixed position.
>
> I also tried with 2 short terminated beverages each 40m long
running along
> a garden wall EW. They worked ok and complimented the RX loop to
give me
> better coverage. I can?t say they were excellent as comparing in a
noise
> free option was a choose but I used them for a couple of seasons
before I
> changed to remote RX in a field a couple of hundred metres away
using a
> WiFi link where I put out 2 x 200m long beverages in a lot quieter
location.
>
> It might vary at your QTH but worth trying as putting up a short
beverage
> temporarily to try as it won?t break the bank.
>
> Regards
>
> Paul MM0ZBH
>
>
>
> On Mon, 4 Jan 2021 at 12:03, Roger Kennedy
> wrote:
>
> >
> > The major source of noise on Top Band (and 80 & 40m) here in
Britain these
> > days comes from VDSL Broadband hash. The problem is that almost
every house
> > has an overhead copper phone line going to it . . . so the
Service Provider
> > runs Fibre-optic lines to a Cabinet in the street . . . but then
uses the
> > ordinary un-screened cables phone cables that run up the wooden
Telegraph
> > Poles, then across to about ten houses . . . and the same all
along the
> > street.
> >
> > Those phone wires act as fantastic antennas radiating the hash! I
have
> > found
> > with my 160m Mobile setup that you have to get a couple of miles
from any
> > phone wires before the noise level starts to drop - which is
almost
> > impossible !
> >
> > I have been told that the Service Providers COULD turn off the
carriers
> > that
> > are in the various Amateur Bands, which would eliminate the
problem . . .
> > but they refuse to do so, as that would obviously reduce
customers'
> > broadband speeds. Despite numerous complaints to the Regulator
(OFCOM)
> > nothing has been done, as the Service Provider denies that there
is a
> > problem !
> >
> > Many people have S9+ noise levels from the VDSL . . . I'm lucky
in that
> > this
> > is a new street, so the phone cables are underground . . . but
there are
> > still overhead wires at the end of the street, 100 yards away,
which gives
> > me an S6 noise level in an SSB bandwidth. (my Receiving Loop in
the loft is
> > turned to null out the noise, but only drops it about 6dB . . .
fortunately
> > that's pointing East-West, which is a pretty good direction for
most DX)
> >
> > So my question is this . . . surely even a Beverage is going to
pick up
> > this
> > hash, as it will always be pointing at some phone wires?
> >
> > I know very few British Topband DXers can put up a Beverage, as
most of us
> > have pretty small gardens (myself included, so this is a purely
academic
> > question) . . . but would be interested to hear any comments.
> >
> > Roger G3YRO
> >
> >
> > _________________
> > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband [17] -
Topband
> > Reflector
> >
> _________________
> Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband [18] -
Topband Reflector
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2021 07:04:42 -0800
From: "Richard (Rick) Karlquist"
To: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Topband: W6 to EU openings last night
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Last night I was surprised to be able to work
SM0GNU, UR0MC, HA8JI, and almost worked IZ4ZZB
from my central CA QTH. Especially UR0MC in
zone 16 who gave me a 599 report. I don't
think I have worked that zone since the ARRL
160 contest during the last SS minimum.
All signals had slow deep QSB. I had to
listen on the TX vertical as I don't presently
have anything beaming EU, although I'm working
on it.
Rick N6RK
------------------------------
Subject: Digest Footer
_______________________________________________
Topband mailing list
Topband@contesting.com
http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/topband
/>
------------------------------
End of Topband Digest, Vol 217, Issue 8
***************************************
Links:
------
[1] http://www.contesting.com/_topband
[2] http://www.contesting.com/_topband
[3] http://www.contesting.com/_topband
[4] http://www.contesting.com/_topband
[5] http://www.contesting.com/_topband
[6] http://www.contesting.com/_topband
[7] http://www.contesting.com/_topband
[8] http://www.contesting.com/_topband
[9] https://youtu.be/l91JL2ImEbk
[10] https://youtu.be/GEkA9Hzrwas
[11] https://youtu.be/PA67Tz-1TO4
[12] http://www.contesting.com/_topband
[13] http://www.contesting.com/_topband
[14] http://www.contesting.com/_topband
[15] http://www.contesting.com/_topband
[16] http://www.contesting.com/_topband
[17] http://www.contesting.com/_topband
[18] http://www.contesting.com/_topband
_________________
Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
|
