There is a lot more to winning an all band DX contest besides a great 160M
location.
Tim and Frank picked locations carefully for low noise, used the various
tools to understand propagation and the angles needed for 10-160M under all
sunspot conditions, assembled a hi tech and reliable station and then
brought in top operators.
They are also far enough below the usual auroral disturbance zone that can
make New England and NY a black hole during disturbed conditions.
Ive experienced it many times when the dividing line on 160 was only 25-30
miles south of me and even coastal stations in the hole couldnt make it
thru.
W1KM antennas are in a salt marsh on Cape Cod and has a killer signal on
160, 80, etc. The station is mostly for contests in a low key, laid back,
training mode and not the high dollar versions that go all out with winning
as the main goal.
My first salt water experience was on Long Island NY in 57 when I had a
TBS-50 and Gonset converter in a souped up 49 Ford and lived about 10 miles
from the ocean. The band used was 10M and as I drove thru the salt marshes
the weak DX started to get stronger and by the time I parked about a block
from the ocean the band was full of loud EU and AF. Heading back home the
signals fell off at the same rate.
One experience while in the USN was aboard a ship that regularly did fleet
exercises off the coast of VA and NC. My old local station, WGBB 1240, with
a single tower in those same salt marshes and running only 250W would be
blasting thru in the middle of the day any time of the year. By mid to late
afternoon it would slowly fade out.
Was that some sort of extended ground wave, skywave, or what?
The current 1000W coverage map shows the rather huge effect of the coastal
location.
http://www.radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/pat?call=WGBB&service=AM&status=L&hours=D
In the Eastern Atlantic and Med the 50KW US coastal stations would often be
loud and clear above the din. Even WKBW 1520 in Buffalo with the antenna
pretty much in polluted Lake Erie came thru well at times. Id patch the RBB
into the crews quarters and mess hall so they could hear local news, sports,
etc
Carl
KM1H
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hardy Landskov" <n7rt@cox.net>
To: "Yuri Blanarovich" <k3bu@optimum.net>; <topband@contesting.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2014 9:55 PM
Subject: Re: Topband: Modeling the proverbial "vertical on a beach"
Yuri,
I don't think K3LR, W3LPL could afford that kind of property to begin with
plus they have to work and have families and all of that. It is nice to do
that kind of thing on DXPD's but I would not want to live there.
My final 2 cents....I vote we move on.
73 N7RT
----- Original Message -----
From: "Yuri Blanarovich" <k3bu@optimum.net>
To: <topband@contesting.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2014 6:35 PM
Subject: Re: Topband: Modeling the proverbial "vertical on a beach"
On Tue, Aug 12, 2014 at 08:14 PM, Tom W8JI wrote:
>
----- Original Message ----- From: "Yuri Blanarovich" To: Sent: Tuesday,
August 12, 2014 4:50 PM
Subject: Re: Topband: Modeling the proverbial "vertical on a beach"
Oh, here comes the "guru" again. :-)
Is that immature stuff really necessary?
Subject of effect of ground, salt water front was discussed, some
experiences were mentioned, but you judge it "unnecessary" and
"feelings". We have been there before: first you don't believe it, deny
it, then when convinced that you were wrong, you go quiet for a while,
and then you "discover" the stuff and post article on your web site, like
it was your invention all along. I have been biting my pen, but sometimes
stuff just slips out. Looks like nothing new. Maybe there is a help by
bringing it up.
So, here we go again:
Unnecessary debate? We are talking about experiences and RESULTS of
comparing normal in land "ground" effect vs. salt water beach or
marshes. We are commenting on the benefit of immediate proximity of
salt water to antenna performance, especially on low angles.
K3BU and others found out that it is not "feeling," but S-meter
readings in order of 10 - 20 dB (RX and TX!) in favor of salty beach.
It is like driving inside into the amplifier
Perhaps you can explain why VOA and others willingly gave up that 10-20
dB, and how K3LR and W3LPL do so well inland, when they pay a 10-20 dB
penalty for communications?
Ask VOA engineers how they chose their locations. I see why WOO - RCA and
AT&T engineers chose their site in Ocean Gate, NJ on some 240 acres of
salty marshes, and how they dominated overseas comms.
K3LR and W3LPL knowingly chose inland sites, because they don't need
extra dBs? Comparing results to which beach station? Maybe operators have
something to do with it?
Using scores between comparable stations gives some indication. But the
real test is the observation of signals in said locations. Simple test of
driving around in the mobile demonstrates the effect. WRTC 2014
disqualified few sites because they were too good, they did the tests and
those too close for salty comfort were not used in order to keep things
more equal (for the inland locations that were available).
One would think if there was a 10-20 db penalty, it would show on
skimmers and that W2GD would be unbeatable being on the water. I'm sure
I'm missing something. What is it I am missing?
It is not penalty, it is advantage. It all depends how one takes
advantage of the effect and how good operator(s) are. You are missing
getting into the car, drive to Cape Hatteras and observe S-meter while
driving close to, or away from the salt water or over the bridges. You
are also overlooking experiences of experienced contesters commenting on
the effect and calling it unnecessary debate and feelings.
It is not easy to find beachfront property suitable for station, but it
is rewarding to get 10 - 20 dB on RX and TX for "free" if one can. I got
convinced and have seen the results and still have few records, even if
anecdotal from XJ3ZZ/1 St. Paul, from VE1ZZ, N2EE/4, TF4X, WOO site, etc.
Others have described their enhancements too, so it is not fairy tale.
Hope it helps.
Yuri, K3BU.us
Thanks, Tom
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