Topband
[Top] [All Lists]

Re: Topband: phasing line lengths for phased verticals

To: DALE LONG <dale.long@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: Topband: phasing line lengths for phased verticals
From: "Joe Subich, W4TV" <lists@subich.com>
Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2012 21:50:15 -0500
List-post: <topband@contesting.com">mailto:topband@contesting.com>

> Joe...I was wrong in my post.  My verticals are 1/2 wave apart on 80m,

That changes things ...

> So the question remains, how to properly feed phased verticals that
> are physically 1/2 wave apart

Seems to me you have two options ... feed them in phase which provides
a bidirectional pattern *broadside* or feed them out of phase which
provides a bidirectional pattern *endfire*.  With the in/out of phase
feed, I would use 1/2 wave lines from the verticals to the phasing
unit.  The phasing unit would consist of your two 1/4 wave lines with
a half wave line in series with one of the two verticals - in line for
endfire and bypassed for broadside.

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV


On 11/17/2012 9:42 PM, DALE LONG wrote:
Joe...I was wrong in my post.  My verticals are 1/2 wave apart on 80m, which is 
the same as 1/4 wave on 160.

After writing my message, I went back and added the 66' for clarity, and should 
have been 132'

You are correct, using RG8X with velocity factor of .78, the phasing lines are 
about 53.5' and there are two of them, making them a too short to reach the 132'

I really DO have 80m verticals that are 1/2 wave apart.  (incidentally I share 
the radial fields with the 160m antennas which are 1/4 wave apart)

So the question remains, how to properly feed phased verticals that are 
physically 1/2 wave apart

73

Dale




________________________________
  From: "Joe Subich, W4TV" <lists@subich.com>
To: topband@contesting.com
Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2012 7:18 PM
Subject: Re: Topband: phasing line lengths for phased verticals


1. for 80m phased verticals that are 1/2 wave apart (66 feet),

That is 1/4 wave separation - not half-wave.  One half wave on 80 is
roughly 139 feet (984/3.55/2 = 138.6 feet).

Since you are using 1/4 wave spacing and a PVS-2 (which is a quadrature
device if I remember correctly), two /14 wave cables (about 54' each
when the velocity factor for foam is included) should *easily* reach
the midpoint of the array.

73,

     ... Joe, W4TV


On 11/17/2012 6:56 PM, DALE LONG wrote:
Until recently, I had phased verticals on both 80m and 160m and lots of 
beverages. (this was in a woods, and not my property)  Then the loggers came 
and destroyed all.

In addition to the antennas, the phasing lines were torn up, and broken and 
needed replacement.  For 160m I use the Christman method with .71 and .84 
wavelength lines. For 80m I use a Comtek PVS-2 controller.


In replacing the 80m phasing lines today I made a stupid mistake, I dont know 
what I was thinking, but I carefully measured and soldered two identical 1/4 
wave lengths of new coax.  I tested them on my AIM 4170 and they were nearly 
identical, exactly on the design frequency.  Then I went to install them and 
guess what...of course they were too short.  I have worked with phased 
verticals before and I know that you often need to use 3/4 wave phasing lines, 
but I was too intent on measuring and soldering and making the repairs.

So now I have two questions.

1. for 80m phased verticals that are 1/2 wave apart (66 feet), what will be the 
pattern?  It's not the same as 1/4 wave spacing, so what really is happening?

2. what is the best length of phasing line to use.  Should I use 3/4 wave 
phasing lines?  Should I avoid using 1/2 wave phasing lines?

Thanks

Dale - N3BNA
_______________________________________________
Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com

_______________________________________________
Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com

_______________________________________________
Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com

<Prev in Thread] Current Thread [Next in Thread>