I actually had something more radical in mind, with the following purely
as a thought exercise.
Instead of tuning around looking for stations, imagine a visual
interface representing a colorful, fairly detailed, immersive world that
we had to physically explore to find other operators. We wouldn't know
their frequency until we found somebody, and when we clicked on their
avatar the program would change the frequency on our rig to match theirs
so we could call them.
An explorer would have to be within a certain distance in this visual
representation of the world in order to initiate a contact. The explorer
would be the same as somebody doing search-and-pounce in a current
contest, and the other operator could be the same as somebody running a
frequency, except the "other operator" could also click on somebody else
and move to their frequency. I readily admit this could get very
confusing ... and even disconnected from propagation ... if everyone
randomly moves around the map. But l say again, this is all just for
stimulating the imagination anyway.
You'd still have to know propagation because there would be no point
"traveling" to some place without propagation, or calling somebody you
could "see" in the visual interface but not hear in real life since
you'd still have to make the contact using CW or SSB or RTTY or
whatever. The transmission could be sent manually via key or mic, or
via a macro in the program just like is done with loggers. The actual
mechanics of making the contact would be virtually the same as it is now
... the difference would be how we find the person to make the contact with.
If we were an explorer, we'd "travel" to places we expected to have
propagation. Travel in the imaginary world could be done by first
clicking on a popup map (just as is done in video games) and then moving
around on foot to look for other people to contact, who wouldn't have to
be running stations ... they could be other explorers we come across.
Other aspects (competition, degrees of difficulty, etc) could be built
into the program that generated obstacles to finding a contact ... or
enhanced the opportunity to do so.
Obviously the number of contacts would be far less than in a current
contest, and I could imagine scenarios that could be problematic
(stepping on other contacts being one of them). Setup would include
your callsign and location, but also need your frequency restrictions to
prevent clicking on somebody's avatar causing you to transmit where your
license didn't give you the authority to do so.
As I said at the beginning, this is only a description of a possible way
to create a totally different environment for radiosport. It's purely
for the sake of trying to broaden the scope. I can almost guarantee
that 98+ percent of the folks on this reflector would find something
like this to be abhorrent ... but I suspect that a tech-minded 25 year
old would view it differently.
As an aside, I asked ChatGPT whether it would be able to program
something like this if given the proper guidance. It gave me a pretty
extensive description of how it could be accomplished ... including my
insistence that it have the ability to simulate everything. I passed
that by my oldest son who is quite proficient as a software designer,
albeit one with zero interest in ham radio. He told me that he didn't
see anything obviously wrong with what ChatGPT proposed. I doubt
whether I'd be able to have the software smarts to pull off something
like this, but for those who do the path might not be so daunting.
There are no doubt more clever and creative possibilities than this one.
73,
Dave AB7E
On 8/13/2025 5:25 AM, Mike Fatchett W0MU wrote:
Agree. The infrastructure has to be created to make it happen. I think
that is where people are getting off track. There could be new
contests or as you say an overlay to existing contests. The cloud Dr
DX element being an alternative environment for when other contests on
the air are not happening.
W0MU
On 8/13/2025 5:52 AM, Randy Thompson wrote:
The things you are proposing could easily be layered over an existing
contest. Have at it and let’s see how it works.
Randy K5ZD
On Aug 13, 2025, at 3:20 AM, Mike Fatchett W0MU <w0mu@w0mu.com> wrote:
Event...Like the 1st one to work W1AAA gets bonus points......The
1st to 50 contacts gets..... the 1st to 50 mults..... bonus for
low power. Just a few off the top of my head. Team play where the
team that does X 1st or has the cleanest log gets more points. The
options are endless.
This will not be a game for the old guard or a contest for the old
guard. People in general dislike change from the norm, old people
are even worse. It will take a while and some probably will need to
pass on before major changes will happen.
W0MU
On 8/12/2025 3:11 PM, David Gilbert wrote:
You totally miss the point. The internet would ONLY be used to
provide a graphical environment. Nothing more!
The application would make use of that visual environment to open
up other possibilities for earning points other than simply making
the contact. The application would essentially just be a smarter
logger.
RADIO (TRANSMITTED AND RECEIVED RF WOULD STILL BE REQUIRED to
actually make whatever interaction the game demanding for earning
the points. You'd still need an antenna, a transceiver, you'd need
to know how to operate them, and you'd still need to understand
propagation. The internet would not supplant, diminish, or add to
any of that.
Why is all of that so difficult to understand??
Right now you just stare at your logger on your computer screen,
but instead you could be looking at an actual visual representation
of the other side of the contact in either a simulated real or
imaginary environment. And the "game" could open up other ways of
earning points depending upon the chosen mechanics. Like I've
said, I'm not sure what those mechanics might be at this point but
I'd bet other folks would have suggestions if they weren't afraid
of the stodgy blowback.
Dave AB7E
On 8/12/2025 6:34 AM, Zack Widup wrote:
Well, then, we can no longer call it ham RADIO. Radio has a specific
definition, which doesn't include the internet. I originally got
interested
in radio because it was magic to me. It still is after almost 60
years of
having a ham license, and longer than that being interested in
shortwave as
an SWL. Internet is not magic to me at all.
Maybe I'll just stick to the microwave/mm-wave bands, which is a vast
unexplored territory for most hams.
Zack W9SZ
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On Mon, Aug 11, 2025 at 3:43 PM Barry W2UP <w2up.co@gmail.com>
wrote:
We don't need RF. Let's just contest online. Then we won't have
horrible
band condx like we did (at least in the west) this past weekend
in WAE.
Barry W2UP (/0)
On Mon, Aug 11, 2025 at 12:05 AM David Gilbert
<ab7echo@gmail.com> wrote:
A friend of mine (Bob, K7ZB) just sent me a link to a recent video
interview of Tom, W2SC (aka 8P5A) done by W1DED. In addition to
descriptions of his station and approach to contesting, Tom
speculates
on where ham radio and contesting in particular might go in the
future.
He pointed out that whatever happens will most likely be
determined by a
younger generation that isn't bound by what ham radio is to
those of us
who have been at it for a while.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ck-RMIyjSfI
His view of the future is very interesting, and I agree that if ham
radio survives to any significant extent it will have to change
... and
it will likely be changed by a younger generation that comes up
with a
way to adapt ham radio to something that is more interesting to
them.
Personally, I've always thought that contesting should figure
out how to
become more like an online video game:
1. Integrated computer graphics that display participants on a
playing
field ... Earth or maybe even some simulated world. You could
zoom in
or zoom out, but the part of the world available to be seen on your
screen could be determined by the real time propagation at that
moment.
To make a contact you'd have to zoom in far enough to see the
station
you're trying to contact, and the display would show their current
frequency. Real time propagation could be derived from actual
contacts
being made if everyone's computer was connected to a common
server ...
just like is done with video games. And before anyone says that
real
time internet connectivity is an issue, keep in mind that it
isn't at
all problem for the demographic we'd be trying to reach.
2. Multiplayer .... where every participant shows up on the
screen at
their actual (or simulated) QTH.
3. ACTUAL COMPETITION! Instead of just trying to make the most
contacts and finding out at the end how you did, make each
contact some
sort of competition that gets displayed on the screen ... and
have some
way of preventing others from making a contact. How that
happens would
depend upon the context of the particular game, just like there are
different video games. But the idea would be to contest each
contact in
some manner that requires either an offensive action or a
defensive one.
4. "Contacts" (whatever the game required for a point) would still
purely come via RF ... station to station. The video display and
central server would only provide the environment for making the
contacts, albeit a hopefully more elaborate and richer
environment than
whatever we currently picture in our minds while making contacts
now.
Some people might say that this is actually no different than a
video
game and that video games have the advantage of a level playing
field
since most computers don't hinder your play. And that's
precisely why I
think a ham radio version might be more interesting. Propagation,
antennas, choice of times and bands would all make the game more
complex
than the typical online video game. The play style would be
enriched by
the variables of ham radio and the technical side of the hobby
would be
retained.
The biggest problem I see with something like this is getting the
programming done. Successful video games can take years and
lots of
money to develop, although there are games like Valheim that
didn't ...
at least not by comparison. However, I strongly suspect that it
won't
be too long before AI could do something like this, or at least
most of
it. We wouldn't need the complexity of a top tier video game, and
graphics engines are becoming increasingly accessible for simple
environments. Station wise, I don't think it would be any
different
than it is now to use a logger for rig control and score
tracking ...
just different software.
I realize that the actual game mechanics are missing here. That's
because I'm not smart enough to come up with the specifics. But
I am
convinced that something like this could be done ... it's really
just a
simple visual interface with an RF connection for the points
instead of
data packets. The number of made contacts would be MUCH fewer
than it
is now for a typical contest, but each contact could potentially
require
more thought and focus. Think in terms of catching fish instead of
hammering out CQ's.
Thoughts?
Dave
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