Zoran & Jose,
You said....,Paper log generation should watch skilled SDR generation operator
in action, at least once! Exactly what is your point in saying that? Please,
please continue with what you got out of Jose's post!
Perhaps YOU can tell me why everyone who wants to use all the "technology"
available doesn't operate in assisted category?
In all the posts that have been made on this reflector there has yet to be a
single one that identifies a reason for giving consideration to eliminating the
category most people prefer.
Can someone please give one reason for eliminating a common fundamental that
exists even in CT1BOH's three categories of evolution - finding a station to
work without the information coming from a remote receiver via Internet?
I ask everyone to go back and read every word of CT1BOH post and then follow
with EI5DI post.
Randy Thompson recently said something like...."Never forget. This is all
supposed to be for fun, leisure and relaxation.". Should we infer that
thousands should be forced to be in the "connected" category with remote
receivers located around the world totally replacing the paper logging, cave
man's preferred method of finding stations to work so it is more fun for
EVERYONE or is it supposed to be FUN for the SDR generation, LEISURE for the
SO2R generation and RELAXATION for the cavemen who were around before computers
and just don't get it?
By the way, Jose, in "your world" of operating where you are the only one or
one of two active from a country your guess as to how much RBN may help you
regarding multipliers could be in the ballpark. That number changes
dramatically if you are operating from DL and are not the hunted.
In the real world, where SO2R generation has not quite gone the way of the
caveman and the paper logging generation yet, it is much more than double that
amount. Do a little math looking at K5ZD in the assisted category and while
doing it look at number of hours operated as compared to K1DG for 2011 and 2012
contests and their results. You will see double your estimate with another 8%
fewer hours of operation by K5ZD.
Are you just trying to make the point that with 6 pan adapters and world's best
skill and operating from a location where everyone needs you for a multiplier
that the difference in that and having RBN is only 10%? I'll accept that and
then say SO WHAT?
OK, I am out of my cave for a while with an open mind. QRV for answers from
the enlightened "SDR generation" for some basic questions above.
Stan, K5GO
Sent from my iPad
On Mar 23, 2013, at 3:01 AM, Zoran Mladenovic <yu1ew@eunet.rs> wrote:
> I could not said it better myself! Very good explanation Jose. Paper log
> generation should watch skilled SDR generation operator in action, at least
> once!
>
> 73
> Zoran, YU1EW
>
>
>
>
> On 23.3.2013 1:55, José Nunes CT1BOH wrote:
>> The Paper log one radio, the SO2R and the SDR generations
>>
>> The discussion about merging Assisted and Non Assisted categories, very
>> passionate as one would expect, is interesting because in my view it has to
>> do with different ways to look at the value of information (callsign and
>> frequency data). This information (call sign and frequency data) has
>> different value depending on what generation you are coming from because
>> contesting is done in different ways. I see three dividing generations:
>>
>> The paper log one radio generation
>> The SO2R generation
>> The SDR generation
>>
>> In the paper log one radio generation we have people who started their
>> contesting careers when there was no PCs or packet systems. Back then the
>> most important skill was to decide when to stop the RUN and go on S&P mode.
>> Stopping the RUN to go on the hunt in S&P mode was fundamental, because it
>> was the only way to increase in dramatic terms the multiplier numbers.
>> Deciding those moments and finding rare mults was fundamental, therefore
>> the value of this activity is very very high for this generation.
>>
>> The SO2R generation came to full throttle with PC, advanced loggers and
>> station automation.
>> The big thing about SO2R generation is they managed to extend the
>> contesting time from 48 hours to ~77 hours because they can listen to a
>> second radio while the first radio is transmitting (~60% of the time of the
>> contest). Also the contest was accelerated in a way that demands both
>> physical and concentration abilities not necessary with a SO1R scenario
>> (paper log generation). To the SO2R generation operators the value of
>> callsign and frequency data is much less than the value attributed to the
>> same data by Paper log one radio generation operators. SO2R operators have
>> much more time to work the multipliers. They do it with the second radio
>> and there is no need to stop the run. They S&P while running. Therefore the
>> value of callsign and frequency data is much less than the value to the
>> paper log one radio generation. The game has a very different nature.
>>
>> In the recent SDR generation a dramatic event has occurred that is changing
>> and shaping contesting. The contest went from audio only to audio/visual
>> event. Not only the operator is listening to the audio of his channel but
>> at the same time he is seeing the full band and the individual traces of
>> signals of the stations in the panadapter with different resolutions to
>> choose. The SDR generation went from a 500hz dimension event to a full band
>> dimension event and for real hard core SDR operator to a full six band
>> dimension in six different panadapters. The value of call sign and
>> frequency data to SDR generation operators is less than the value
>> attributed by SO2R generation operators because it is quicker and easier
>> for them to get to stations and of course it is much less than the value
>> attributed to paper log one radio generation operators that can only work
>> rare multipliers by stopping their RUN.
>>
>> But a question remains - is the value of callsign and frequency data zero
>> or close to zero so that we can say merging the Assisted and Non Assisted
>> categories has no consequences? It's closer to zero for SDR generation.
>> It's very far from zero to paper log one radio generation.
>> But there is still value in callsign and frequency data. Looking at Top
>> SOAB (SDR generator operator) versus top SOAB Assisted station and MS
>> stations, I estimate the value of callsign and frequency data to be around
>> 8-10% percent. A top SOAB SDR generation that decides to jump into SOAB
>> Assisted category and do things right (i.e. follow only the really valuable
>> “spots” and don't mess with RUN) will be able to increase his multiplier
>> totals by around 8-10%. It's different but not that different to have a
>> striking opposition to merging the Assisted and Non Assisted categories
>>
>> A laughable point to me in this discussion is the notion transmitted by
>> paper log one radio generation that they are the ones who know how to do
>> things and they do it the noble way. I say laughable, even though I have
>> great admiration by some of those paper log one radio generation icon
>> operators, because they have no idea of what they are talking about. They
>> are stuck in a time and in a contest that is very different form the
>> contest that is played by the new generation.They try to preach to a
>> generation that doesn’t want to go back because things are more dynamic,
>> more interesting, more intense and for sure more fun.
>> The paper log one radio generation unique skill of knowing when to stop the
>> run and go S&P is no longer necessary when using SO2R and SDR/Panadapters
>> and topped with assistance it’s even more heartbreaking to them. But that’s
>> the way things are. There’s no time machine and the clock keeps ticking
>> forward. In an image, the paper log one radio generation operate as if they
>> are stuck inside a cave listening to a signal coming from the end of the
>> cave, while the SDR generation are out at night, looking at every signal in
>> the universe represented by the stars - the contest the later are playing
>> is that different!
>>
>> I consider myself in the SDR generation because that is the way I operate
>> from CR3E. I have no problems combining the Assisted and the Non Assisted
>> category. It is an inexorable trend and I have no doubt it will be just a
>> matter of time, sooner than later. It is what the SDR generation want, I
>> dare to say, because contesting will become more interactive, more
>> “social”, more integrated, more real time and for sure a lot more
>> attractive to the younger generation of contesters.
>>
>> Also have not doubts that the winners in the SDR generation need to have
>> more skills than the ones that were needed in the paper log one radio
>> generation or in the SO2R generation.
>>
>> José Nunes - CONTEST CT1BOH - http://www.qsl.net/ct1boh
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