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Re: [Amps] Alpha fault 17

To: <k2cb@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Amps] Alpha fault 17
From: "Dick Green WC1M" <wc1m73@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2016 16:00:56 -0500
List-post: <amps@contesting.com">mailto:amps@contesting.com>
I decided not to remove the T/R board. Instead, I cut L1 off the board, leaving 
about a quarter inch of the wire ends soldered to the PCB. Then I crimped those 
leads to the ends of the new winding and soldered. I also replaced the transmit 
PIN diodes without removing the board. Delicate operations, but I thought the 
effort would be considerably less than removing and reinstalling the board.

 

Dick WC1M

 

From: k2cb@comcast.net [mailto:k2cb@comcast.net] 
Sent: Friday, December 9, 2016 3:54 PM
To: Dick Green WC1M <wc1m73@gmail.com>
Cc: ve6jy 1 <ve6jy.1@gmail.com>; Amps@contesting.com
Subject: Re: [Amps] Alpha fault 17

 

Glad to here it is the input meter circuit diodes rather than the choke; while 
a hassle to get input meter board out, it is much easier than removing the 
aforementioned RF output board.   Worse case you could cut the old ones out and 
tack solder in the new 1N5711 diode(s) from the top of the board, although 
personally I would remove the board and do it properly.

 

Theses posts are jogging my memory some more........  I had an Alpha 99 in my 
workshop a few years ago that experienced strange tuning results. While it 
would do legal limit with ease, sometimes too easy, and not very linear in 
gain, similar to Don's 87A issue the tuning meter also did not work properly.  
Unfortunately the 99 does not have any serial port, so troubleshooting was not 
as easy, but the problem also turned out to be the two 1N5711 diodes on the 
input wattmeter board, similar to Don's finding on his 87A.     Two diodes 
later the amp was back to normal operation.  

 

Eric 

K2CB 

 

  _____  

From: "Dick Green WC1M" <wc1m73@gmail.com <mailto:wc1m73@gmail.com> >
To: k2cb@comcast.net <mailto:k2cb@comcast.net> , "Dick Green WC1M" 
<wc1m73@gmail.com <mailto:wc1m73@gmail.com> >
Cc: "ve6jy 1" <ve6jy.1@gmail.com <mailto:ve6jy.1@gmail.com> >, 
Amps@contesting.com <mailto:Amps@contesting.com> 
Sent: Friday, December 9, 2016 3:37:36 PM
Subject: RE: [Amps] Alpha fault 17

 

I know Don resolved his problem -- a bad wattmeter diode -- but wanted to a 
couple of comments to Eric's description of the L1 problem. 

 

- My L1 was arcing not only to the PCB, but also to the mounting screw Eric 
describes below. When I first inspected the T/R board, before Brad suggested 
checking L1, I didn't notice the carbon deposits on that screw. If I had, I 
would have realized something was going on with L1. So, one thing I'd recommend 
to 87A owners is to open the T/R box, which isn't difficult, and check the 
screw and the area near L1 for burned spots. You may be able to tilt L1 a 
little to see if there's any damage to the insulating pad and/or windings. If 
there's any sign the pad is disintegrating, replace it.

 

- Once I removed L1 and the disintegrating insulating pad underneath it, I 
found a burned area with a deep divot in the PCB.

 

73, Dick WC1M

 

-----Original Message-----
From: k2cb@comcast.net <mailto:k2cb@comcast.net>  [mailto:k2cb@comcast.net] 
Sent: Friday, December 9, 2016 1:01 PM
To: Dick Green WC1M <wc1m73@gmail.com <mailto:wc1m73@gmail.com> >
Cc: ve6jy 1 <ve6jy.1@gmail.com <mailto:ve6jy.1@gmail.com> >; 
Amps@contesting.com <mailto:Amps@contesting.com> 
Subject: Re: [Amps] Alpha fault 17

 

Good points, Dick.  I seem to recall a similar thought when I first inspected 
the board. At first glance, I thought there was no issue there.  Only once I 
removed the coil and scraped away the foam did I see the damage (carbon) on the 
circuit board itself.   It seems to want to arc near the one end to the left of 
the amp, where there is a mounting screw close by, and the associated ground 
plane. I also had damage to the winding wire itself, about 1/4" from the board. 
The end of the wire near the board was brittle, and broke as I handled it. I 
was able to repair the winding lead without having to rewind the entire coil, 
but if it was any further into the torroid, I would have had to rewind the 
entire coil. 
  
While I don't recommend it, you could defeat the safety interlocks, ramp the 
amp up in rf power, and closely watch the area to see if it arcs when the fault 
occurs. 
  
A pen cap slid over the HV shorting terminal works well as a temporary defeat. 
  
Eric
K2CB 
  

 

----- Original Message -----

 

From: "Dick Green WC1M" <wc1m73@gmail.com <mailto:wc1m73@gmail.com> > 
To: "K2CB" <k2cb@comcast.net <mailto:k2cb@comcast.net> >, "ve6jy 1" 
<ve6jy.1@gmail.com <mailto:ve6jy.1@gmail.com> > 
Cc: Amps@contesting.com <mailto:Amps@contesting.com>  
Sent: Friday, December 9, 2016 12:48:08 PM 
Subject: RE: [Amps] Alpha fault 17 

 

Some additional points: 

 

- You may not be able to see evidence of arcing until you remove the choke. 
- You may need to replace (rewind) the coil. Just count the turns and use 
the same gauge/type of wire 
- When my choke coil started arcing, I didn't get fault 17. I got faults 8 
and 9 (and 1, I think). 
-  This was evidence that the arcing damaged one of the transmit PIN diodes, 
which I had to replace. 

 

Don't use the amp until you attend to the choke coil. You don't want to risk 
damage to the PIN diodes, which are expensive. 

 

73, Dick WC1M 
  
-----Original Message----- 
From: K2CB [mailto:k2cb@comcast.net] 
Sent: Friday, December 9, 2016 12:54 AM 
To: ve6jy.1@gmail.com <mailto:ve6jy.1@gmail.com>  
Cc: Amps@contesting.com <mailto:Amps@contesting.com>  
Subject: Re: [Amps] Alpha fault 17 

 

Do a search of the 87A Yahoo group regarding the large L1 choke coil on the 
RF output wattmeter / pin diode / bypass relay module near the rear antenna 
jack. Don't quote me on the exact part designation, as I am not at my desk 
top at the moment, but it is the large green one on that board. 

 

Remove the four screws and shield cover.  You will see a large green wire 
wound choke coil.  Alpha placed a piece of black foam between the coil and 
circuit board as an insulator. 

 

This material is breaking down over time, and causing the coil to arc over 
to the ground plane of the circuit board. It will get worse over time,  and 
the fault 17 will occur with less and less rf output power as time goes on. 

 

Remove the choke from the board, remove all the old foam pad, clean off any 
carbon on the circuit board from the arcing , and install a replacement 
piece of insulation material.  I used some thin black plastic.  Then 
reinstall the choke coil. 

 

If you must remove the entire circuit board, be especially careful with the 
pin diode mounting and associated insulators.  They are somewhat fragile. 

 


If you like, I can send you some pictures I took of the last 87A I repaired 
with the same problem. The photos are on my desktop. I can send them 
tomorrow when I get back to my office. 

 

FYI - Credit is due to Brad from Alpha (or whatever their name is this 
year!) for originally suggesting this as a possible Fault 17 cause. 

 

Eric 
K2CB 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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