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[Amps] Measuring tank coil inductance

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Subject: [Amps] Measuring tank coil inductance
From: "Jim Thomson" <jim.thom@telus.net>
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2013 01:35:13 -0700
List-post: <amps@contesting.com">mailto:amps@contesting.com>
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2013 09:52:15 -0700
From: Vic K2VCO <k2vco.vic@gmail.com>
To: Amps reflector <amps@contesting.com>
Subject: [Amps] Measuring tank coil inductance

I've been trying to find a good method to measure the inductance of large coils 
made out 
of tubing. For example, I have a coil made of 19 turns of 3/16" (about 4.8mm) 
tubing, 
3.25" (8.3 cm) diameter and 5.5" (14 cm) long. The calculated inductance is 
about 8.3 uh.

I've tried the following methods to actually measure the inductance:

AADE LC meter IIB: This device is very useful for such jobs as determining the 
values of 
small components, calibrating vacuum capacitors, measuring the inductance of RF 
chokes, 
etc. But it consistently reads low when measuring coils where the distributed 
capacity is 
large compared to the inductance. I did this experiment: I made a coil of 4 
turns of 3/16" 
tubing, 3" long. I measured the inductance (low compared to calculated value), 
and started 
compressing the turns. The measured inductance increased (as it should) up to a 
point, but 
then started DECREASING! My thought is that the effect of the increasing 
distributed 
capacity overcame the increased inductance. I also measured the inductance of 
an 
unmodified B&W 852 tank, which has a built-in switch and a lot of distributed 
capacity. 
The measured values were much lower than the spec sheet indicated.

MFJ 259B antenna analyzer: measured inductance increased rapidly with 
frequency. Totally 
worthless.

Measuring resonant frequency with GDO with parallel capacitor: seemed to read 
low compared 
to formula, but I think it may be the best method.

Now I am wondering: in a practical tank circuit, if the pi-network calculation 
calls for, 
say 8 uh, shouldn't you take into account the distributed capacity? In other 
words, the 
inductance isn't important: what you REALLY want is a specific inductive 
reactance at the 
operating frequency, which in the case of a large tubing coil would be composed 
of the sum 
of the inductive reactance and the (negative) capacitive reactance of the 
distributed 
capacity.

If this is correct then probably the GDO method, selecting a parallel capacitor 
which puts 
the resonant frequency near to the operating frequency, would be best. The 
procedure would 
be to use a variable capacitor, achieve resonance in the band in question, then 
measure 
the capacitance (with the AADE) and compute the inductance.

I know that the final adjustment should be made to reduce the SWR measured from 
the output 
with a resistor equal to the load impedance from plate to ground, but this can 
be achieved 
with different values of Q, so you need the inductance to be close to the 
calculated value.

How do real amplifier designers do this?

-- 
Vic, K2VCO
Fresno CA
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/

##  The mfj 259B is useless.   there is no way in hell the uh is gonna drop 
that much when u measure it at the
freq of interest.    You wind say a 40m coil, using a 259B,  and you won’t even 
be close to reality.   You will have your
tank circuits so screwed up, they won’t even be close.   The way to verify all 
this is to measure the  tune and load caps
as well, when it’s all in the test jig.   Your pi net  values will all come out 
correct provided you can actually measure
the tube and load caps  and the coil, and all stray c and  stray l. 

##  I use a B+K  875B   ( Mouser)  This is a digital lcr meter.   Measures down 
to .1uh  and also .1pf   and high as 200 Henries
and as high as 20,000 uf.   The resistance part of it will measure down to .001 
ohm. 

##  You can also zero out the test lead stray uh and pf.   When I want a  say 
8.4 uh coil, I want a 8.4 uh coil, and not something
that’s a mile out.   Industry standard, comes with a 3 yr warranty.   It’s  my 
#1 tool  for building tank circuits coils, etc. 

##  I’d be dead in the water without it.   BTW, the grid dip coils on the 259B  
are also useless, even w8ji will tell you that, and he designed
it.   I have yet to talk to anybody who can dip anything with it. 

## measuring stray uh and stray  pf is a piece of cake with the 875B.   ditto 
with tube C, vac caps, doorknobs, coax, and anything else
you can think of. 

## The various charts and formulae will only get u so far....esp with tubing 
coils., use the test gear for the final tweaking, taps, etc. 

later... Jim   VE7RF
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