Amps
[Top] [All Lists]

Re: [Amps] resistor before the cap redux

To: TexasRF@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Amps] resistor before the cap redux
From: James Colville <jimw7ry@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 07:49:54 -0800
List-post: <amps@contesting.com">mailto:amps@contesting.com>
*>Jim, did you test using the Mag transformer with the larger AC wiring? Did
>you test using the Dahl transformer using the smaller AC wiring?
*

That was my first thought!
73
Jim W7RY


On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 6:08 AM, <TexasRF@aol.com> wrote:

>
> Jim, did you test using the Mag transformer with the larger AC wiring? Did
> you test using the Dahl transformer using the smaller AC wiring?
>
> In other words, how much of the problem is caused by the 12 ga  wiring?
>
> Has anyone determined that a 22 ohm resistance in series with the secondary
>  is enough to actually take care of the turn on surge? I ask this because
> many I  have measured some of the Dahl secondary windings at about 25 ohms.
> Adding  another 22 ohms only reduces the charging current by about half. In
> my  experience, the charging current needs to be much lower than that.
>
> You mention pri magnetizing current: I am not familiar with that term and
> am guessing there is a 1.9 A current flow in the primary with no load on
> the
>  secondary. If so, there is about 450 watts of loss just sitting there.
> Seems the transformer would get pretty warm when this happens. Am I
> understanding this correctly?
>
> I went through a voltage drop witch hunt in my shack a few years back and
> also found that 12 ga wiring for the power amplifiers is entirely
> inadequate. I  ran a temporary length of 4/0 three conductor cable from the
> breaker
> panel to  the amplifier area and that blasted cable is still there and in
> the
> way! I just  have to get it out of there one of these days.
>
> 73,
> Gerald K5GW
>
>
>
> n a message dated 2/10/2010 7:24:54 A.M. Central Standard Time,
>  Jim.thom@telus.net writes:
>
>
> I  just ran a bunch of numbers on PSU designer and got quite different
> numbers  than yours. I suspect it is because of the way measurements are
> being made.  That is if I am doing things right here!
>
>
>
> Notice that with the  10 MFd filter and 22 ohm series resistor the Vo
> Drops 387 (multiplied by  100) volts from 267 ma load to 1.64 amp load.
> With a 100 MFD capacitor that  voltage drop is only 149 volts.
>
> With no series resistor and a 10 MFD  filter the voltage swing is 377
> volts. Only 10 volts better than with the  22 ohm resistor.
>
> But with the 100 MFD filter the voltage swing from 272  ma to 1.82 amps
> is only 59 volts without the 22 ohm resistor. This is about  100 volts
> better regulation than with the 22 ohm  resistor.
>
>
> Should we not worry so much about low resistance windings  on our
> transformers?
>
> ###  Low resistance winding's on a plate  xfmr are everything imo.
> A buddy just went through grief, using a NEW 46  lb mag cap xfmr
> for a 6m  gs35b 6m amp.    V regulation was  terrible.  Sure, there
> was a 6 v  drop on the long 12 ga   240 line... but that same line
> power's  his alpha too. [ not at the  same time of course].  700 v drop
> on the single tube 6m amp.
>
> ## The mag cap was changed out  with a huge dahl  xfmr,
> complete  with 2 ga  wire back to main panel  and a  string of
> 2500 uf new HV lytics.  NOW, the V regulation is  superb.
> Less  than 150 v.
>
> ##  I call the  B+  voltage you get, when drawing ZSAC, the real
> NO load B+...   not  when on RX.   Amp has to idle 1st... b4
> drive can be  applied.  [assuming NO EBS]  OK, hit the PTT, and
> either pulse  tune..or talk on ssb.     B+ barely moves.  PEP  out
> of the amp is WAY up.
>
> ###  Installing the 20-25 ohm resistor  between  FWB  and B+ caps
> would have one good application  though.... for step start.  In that case,
> you don't have the problem  of PRI magnetizing current  flowing through
> the normal ..'resistor in  one leg of 240 line'  conventional step start.
>
> ## the mag   current on some of my 4800 vac pole pigs is 1.9A
> IE: you can never fully  charge the B+ caps  up to almost full. I end up
> with one helluva big  sec surge, when resistor in 240 line is shorted. The
> fix for now, was to  reduce it's value.  [25 ohms..down to 10 ohms]
>
> ## Now, installing  the  25 ohm resistor, between FWB  and B+ caps..
> this would be  great  for step start...THEN, short it out  with a VAC
> relay  !!    Caps  will charge right  up to max B+
>
> ###  Then, with vac relay present,  it's  a snap to  toggle between..."22
> ohm resistor in line.. or OUT  of line"   I haven't tried the vac relay
> part
> ..yet.... but did install a  25 ohm, 225 watt, WW  between  FWB..and
> B+ caps.... and V  regulation goes to hell..fast.  The bigger the load,
> the worse it  gets.  Which is exactly what PSUD  predicts.
>
> ## The test is  repeatable.   Try it yourself [with a big load... like
> either key  down  1.5 kw out cxr... OR... just plane SSB.]  It's lousy
> either  mode..with that 25 ohm resistor installed.
>
> later.... Jim   VE7RF
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Hope all the columns line  up.
>
> 73
> Gary   K4FMX
>
> _______________________________________________
> Amps mailing  list
> Amps@contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/amps
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Amps mailing list
> Amps@contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/amps
>
_______________________________________________
Amps mailing list
Amps@contesting.com
http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/amps

<Prev in Thread] Current Thread [Next in Thread>