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Re: [Amps] Alpha 8410 -- The Market should be D.O.A.

To: Amps <amps@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [Amps] Alpha 8410 -- The Market should be D.O.A.
From: "Roger (K8RI)" <sub1@rogerhalstead.com>
Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2008 19:56:06 -0400
List-post: <amps@contesting.com">mailto:amps@contesting.com>
Rob Atkinson wrote:
> Now that Tokyo Hi-Power has a 1.5 kw s.s. amp on the market for around $5500
> (American street price) the high end price ceiling for a s.s. legal limit
>   
Cheapest I'm seeing them is $5800.
You need to add the auto tuner to that to get the complete price which 
will bring it up about $1200 more or a total of $7,000 for a rugged, 
well protected, instant on, easy to operate, amplifier with automatic 
band switching.  It's true this isn't cheap, but it's on par with top of 
the line, auto tune, tube type and more forgiving amps.  My guess is the 
majority of hams will stick with the tube type at least for some time to 
come.  That is for two reasons, one is that most (the vast majority) 
hams opting for QRO do so with either used or the less expensive, manual 
tune amps with a manual tuner behind it. The second it most hams are 
still used to seeing tubes are rugged and SS as being fragile and it is. 
That is why SS amps aren't quite a bit cheaper, er... less expensive 
might be a better phrase here. They have to devote considerable 
resources to protecting said rigs.  Tubes OTOH are seen as being 
forgiving.   Whether they are or not is something else. Some are and 
some aren't.
> amp has been broken and any well-heeled ham would be, IMO, unwise to spend
> multi-thousands on a tube amp.
That ham is still going to see the tube amp as the most reliable, 
rugged, and the most for their money.  Hams aren't known for being 
"early adopters" overall.  They tend to be more conservative than say 
computer people who are often running bleeding edge instead of leading edge.
>    Oh sure if you're a prol. like I am you'll
> go get an AL-82 or 80B and call it a day but the days of these big gold
> plated automated tube amps from outfits like Alpha and Acom are numbered.
>   
Probably so ... eventually, but I think, No I'll predict that the top 
end tube amps will be around for quite some time *Unless* the tubes 
become too difficult to find readily, or they become a custom 
manufactured and very expensive item.  We've seen this happen with the 
8873, 8874, 8875, 4CX-1600B (Great tube), 3 and 4 CX 800's (Eimac says 
they are still making the 3CX-800 but they are not listed as available 
on line, or weren't last week.  They do list the 3CPX-800 which I'd 
prefer anyway, but it's more expensive.  Had Svetlana not quit on us the 
SS amps would have a lot more long term competition.
> If I were them I'd have a 1.5 kw s.s. amp on the drawing board and if I were
> a customer I'd be looking closely at the Tokyo Hi-Power 2.5.  These
> automatic no-tune tube amps have mostly been bought by competitive hams
>   
These aren't really automatic, no tune amps unless you purchase the auto 
tuner for another $1200 (give or take) AND hook up the control lines 
from the exciter to both the amp and tuner.  These amps are not at all 
forgiving of high SWR. High?  They are just plain intolerant.  They 
tolerate very little SWR and will trip out (shut down) on an SWR under 
1.3:1.  Of course that protection is good for the amp, but can be 
frustrating for the ham until they get used to *carefully* tuning up.  
IF "in-the-ballpark" you can manually tune while talking if careful. 
Otherwise one tiny slip and you are running barefoot.   
> looking for any edge they can get such as quick QSY.  S.S. amsp have all of
> that without the motors, and high voltage, but have the reliability you have
> gotten over the years with your s.s. exciter.
>   
Welll... Kinda.  You have to first have a rig with the band encoding 
output either through the audio like Icom or digital as with Yaesu.  
Then you really do need to set up the ALC properly as unlike a tube rig, 
these things trip out on a single cycle.  As I said before, you also  
have to have the band change wired into the tuner as well as the amp.
> Alpha has a choice of four options:
> 1.  Go solid state
> 2.  Go out of business
> 3.  Start making reasonable tube amps for the Ameritron crowd
> 4.  Make platinum plated silver wire tube amps studded with diamonds for the
> 3 or 4 hams who have a lot more money than brains.
>
>   
I really don't think so, at least for a while. Alpha is known for 
quality and durability.  I would assume they will also come out with a 
top end SS amp with auto tune, but it like the others isn't going to be 
cheap.

Now, I've based what I've said on two things. The first is I've been 
using a SS KW for some time. I was talking with the Tokyo Hy-Power Rep 
before HRO was selling them and picked up one of the first they got in. 
I opted for the 1.5-Kfx because it had 6-meters in addition to HF.  So, 
I've had lots of experience using one of the new amps.  I also have a 
couple big, heavy, tube amps including an old Henry 2K4 and an Alpha.  
Yes, I like the 1.5-Kfx better than any of the others and I may indeed 
end up with a 2.5 some day.  I just don't see  the average ham having 
the faith in SS, taking the care to tune, spending the extra $1200 for 
an auto tuner just to operate using a tribander or move only a little 
way on 40 or 75.   Actually you might have to resort to a manual tuner 
to cover all of 75 let alone 160.
I think the major market will remain just as it is with the Tokyo 
Hy-power series being added to the high end group.

> 73,
>
> rob / k5uj
>
> <<<
>
> Another BTW, Alpha's price on the new 8410 is...........$5195 + shipping and
> handling!!!
> After June 1st, it goes up to ..........$5395 also + S&H.
> Since this is a new model, why did they even bother with the intro price?
>   
That's normal with new amps and models.  Tokyo Hy-Power did the same 
with their amps.
> For a manual tune amp using a tube that has been around for at least 20 +
>   
Wayyy plus, as back into the 60's.  It's a good tube and highly linear. 
It's also readily available for a reasonable price.
> years surely they could have priced it more reasonably.  It doesn't have a
> PD plate transformer in it, just some other no name transformer wrapped in
> what looks like old fashion black duct tape.
>
> FYI, the 9500 has an 8% price increase effective June 1.  $9650 + S&H.
>
>   
Class and a rock solid reputation costs money<:-)) It it worth it? That 
I can't say.

73

Roger (K8RI - ARRL Life Member)
www.rogerhalstead.com
N833R (World's oldest Debonair)
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