I deal with these cost and outsourcing decisions all of the time in my main
work all of the time.
I agree, it is necessary in order for any company to be competitive.
However, stooping TOO low in our business means people can die in some
instances if a sub par component fails causing a missed hazard alarm, sometimes
a LOT of people.
Therefore it is even more essential that we test and qualify new part sources
before they get used for production purposes.
Nonetheless, I appreciate the comment regarding the costs associated with Mil
Spec procurement. No one would pay that, of course, so we settle for what we
can get at a price e can afford.
Still, if a part from a “new” vendor comes in at 15% of the cost of that same
part from a trusted vendor, one might need to ask, what did the new vendor
leave out? What risks do I take in this procurement? Is it worth the risk?
Ten Tec, among a LOT of others, took that chance, It cost Dell nearly half a
BILLION dollars.
I don’t think Ten Tec bears any responsibility to Orion owners for this choice,
only that they give the owners a compelling reason to do this arduous task of
replacing these capacitors other than routine PM.
I just finished one a half hour ago and it install NOT fun.
However, if anyone wants this job done and does not want to do it themselves, I
will do it for you for less than TT and you don’t have to ship your whole
radio. Just remove the power distribution board and send it. I’ll return it
with all caps replaced, board cleaned in Isopropanol to remove ugly solder
flux, ready to reinstall.
Gary
W0DVN
That’s W0DVN!
> On Nov 14, 2015, at 11:43 AM, Tony <va3dwi@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Gary,
> Why would Ten-Tec have to "come clean" about these capacitors. They got
> shafted as did many other manufacturers. You make "using the lowest bidder"
> sound like it is a crime. BTW, in case we wish to make use of you "buying and
> selling business" what is your call sign?
> 73, Tony VE3DWI.
>
> Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone on the Bell network.
> Original Message
> From: Gary J FollettDukes HiFi
> Sent: Saturday, November 14, 2015 12:25
> To: Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment
> Reply To: Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment
> Subject: Re: [TenTec] Bad Capacitors (WAS: Orion II master resetting each
> turn on)
>
> I think the reason Ten Tec its so adamant about having people routinely do
> the capacitor change is that, when the suspect capacitors fail, it us usually
> without warning and can be quite dramatic, causing irreversible damage to PC
> boards. Also, likely inhaling the results of the vaporization of the
> chemicals in the capacitors is not in one’s best interests either. Therefore,
> to avoid possible liability issues, Ten Tec has chosen the path of strongly
> encouraging this upgrade even if the radio is working fine.
>
> In reality, I agree with them on their approach, though I wish they would be
> forthcoming as to the reason and admit that they too went with “the lowest
> bidder” on these capacitors. That openness would probably encourage more
> people to do the work as a preventative measure instead of waiting for the
> inevitable failures to take place.
>
> Going forward, every Orion I pass through my buying and selling business will
> get this upgrade before leaving my hands, just for the added safety level it
> offers for my buyers.
>
>
> Gary
>
>
>
>
>> On Nov 14, 2015, at 7:56 AM, Kim Elmore <cw_de_n5op@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>> What a fascinating article on those capacitors! I've seen those failures on
>> computer motherbaords. My O II was purchased June 2007 and hasn't yet shown
>> any signs of capacitor problems. I wonder if it will bite me like it has so
>> many others? It was sent to TT service for transmit power output issues in
>> 2013 and they replaced the battery as a matter of course, so I should be
>> good for a while yet on that. So far, it's been a wonderful rig!
>>
>> Kim N5OP
>>
>> On 11/13/2015 9:25 AM, Gary J FollettDukes HiFi wrote:
>>> I have considerable background in Aluminum processing as well as in the
>>> analytical methods used by the researchers in the Woki article surrounding
>>> the electrolytic plague.
>>>
>>> I must admit that I was very impressed by the Wiki article in terms of its
>>> detail and depth. Anyone who wants to understand electrolytic capacitors
>>> and why they do what they do should read this.
>>>
>>> Thank you for the reference. I learned a lot from it.
>>>
>>> Gary
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Nov 13, 2015, at 8:37 AM, Duane Calvin <ac5aa1@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for the reminder, Ron. I notice the Wiki article is not complete.
>>>> It leaves out the news story that came out a while after the plague began
>>>> that told of how someone had infiltrated the premiere electrolytic maker in
>>>> Taiwan and stole the recipe for the "secret sauce" inside. Problem was, the
>>>> company had hid away the real recipe, and had left a phony copy where it
>>>> could be stolen in order to foil competitors. And, sadly, that is how we
>>>> have been cursed with the bad capacitors for lo these many years! Here's
>>>> one of the online references with a slightly different twist, but it's
>>>> close:
>>>> http://www.pctools.com/security-news/faulty-capacitors/
>>>>
>>>> And that's our intrigue for a Friday morning, the 13th!
>>>>
>>>> 73, Duane
>>>>
>>>> Duane Calvin, AC5AA
>>>> Austin, Texas
>>>> ac5aa@ac5aa.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: TenTec [mailto:tentec-bounces@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Ron Castro
>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2015 11:10 PM
>>>> To: 'Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment'
>>>> Subject: Re: [TenTec] Bad Capacitors (WAS: Orion II master resetting each
>>>> turn on)
>>>>
>>>> The bad capacitors were produced from around 1999 to 2003, but the effects
>>>> lasted for several years afterward. Dell got burned for some $420 Million,
>>>> also Apple, HP, Intel, IBM and others got hit for huge sums. Here's the sad
>>>> story from Wikipedia:
>>>>
>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague
>>>>
>>>> At the end is the speculation about the stolen formula, which is intriguing
>>>> to say the least! This hit Ten Tec as well, and even if you sent your radio
>>>> back to them, they replaced the caps with ones from the same bad batch
>>>> before all of this was known.
>>>>
>>>> Ron Castro
>>>> N6IE
>>>> www.N6IE.com
>>>>
>>>> Member:
>>>> ARRL
>>>> Redwood Empire DX Assn.
>>>> Northern California Contest Club
>>>> Northern California DX Foundation
>>>> Society of Broadcast Engineers
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: TenTec [mailto:tentec-bounces@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Duane
>>>> Calvin
>>>> Sent: November 12, 2015 8:33 PM
>>>> To: 'Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment'
>>>> Subject: Re: [TenTec] Orion II master resetting each turn on
>>>>
>>>> For some period of time a few years back, EVERYONE had problems with
>>>> electrolytics due to a stolen fake formula for the electrolytic compound in
>>>> the caps. Sure caused a lot of problems. I had to repair my Samsung
>>>> big-screen TV by replacing electrolytics on the power supply board, for
>>>> example. I used to know the years this occurred, but no room in my memory
>>>> for that any more!
>>>>
>>>> 73, Duane
>>>>
>>>> Duane Calvin, AC5AA
>>>> Austin, Texas
>>>> ac5aa@ac5aa.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>> TenTec@contesting.com
>>>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/tentec
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> TenTec@contesting.com
>>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/tentec
>>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Kim Elmore, Ph.D. (Adj. Assoc. Prof., OU School of Meteorology, CCM, PP
>> SEL/MEL/Glider, N5OP, 2nd Class Radiotelegraph, GROL)
>>
>> /"In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in
>> practice, there is." //– Attributed to many people; it’s so true that it
>> doesn’t matter who said it./
>>
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>
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