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Re: [TenTec] Antenna is up, but the coupler doesn't like 160 meters

To: Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment <tentec@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [TenTec] Antenna is up, but the coupler doesn't like 160 meters
From: Mike Bryce <prosolar@sssnet.com>
Reply-to: Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment <tentec@contesting.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2013 11:21:12 -0400
List-post: <tentec@contesting.com">mailto:tentec@contesting.com>
bob,

since the antenna is inverted vee style, the feedline slopes away from the 
tower.

and yes,  5kw current 1:1 balun at the end feed into the 238 tuner.



Mike Bryce, WB8VGE
 the heathkit shop
SunLight energy systems
J e e p
o|||||||o






On Oct 14, 2013, at 10:58 PM, Bob McGraw - K4TAX wrote:

> Diddling a bit more, the feed point Z of the antenna is projected to be 
> around 20 to 25 ohms.  The feed line is about 3/8 wavelength or about 135 
> degrees.  I see nothing wrong with these values that might point to an issue.
> 
> I will presume the feedline is brought away from the antenna at near 90 
> degrees and is not running parallel with the antenna.  This could create a 
> problem should he feedline be basically parallel with the antenna.
> 
> Hopefully you are using a 1:1 current balun and not a 4:1 current or voltage 
> balun.  If you are using a 4:1 balun, I suggest turning it around in the 
> circuit such that it is operating as a 1:4 balun.  If you are using the 
> configuration as a 4:1 balun, with a Z on the output side at some 20 ohms, 
> then tuner is seeing something like 5 ohms.  Thus finding the Z to be outside 
> of the matching range of the tuner.
> 
> Just a few thoughts and ramblings.
> 
> 73
> Bob, K4TAX
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob McGraw - K4TAX" <RMcGraw@Blomand.net>
> To: "Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment" <tentec@contesting.com>
> Sent: Monday, October 14, 2013 7:27 PM
> Subject: Re: [TenTec] Antenna is up, but the coupler doesn't like 160 meters
> 
> 
>> Based on these numbers, the antenna should show resonance at about 1.8 MHz 
>> and the feedline should show resonance at about 2.75 MHz.  Let me emphasize 
>> that these are resonance numbers are not anyway related to SWR values.  With 
>> an instrument such as the MFJ 259 analyzer being operated as a dip meter, 
>> you should see a dip at or close to these two frequencies. Again, disregard 
>> any SWR value at this point as it is a ratio of impedance and has nothing to 
>> do with resonant frequency.
>> 
>> If you are using something like a Tentec 238 or 239 tuner, connect the 600 
>> ohm line direct to the tuner terminals and be sure to have the jumper in 
>> place from Single Wire terminal to one terminal of the Balance Line 
>> terminals.  Also for 160M you will likely need the 1000 pF cap from the 
>> External Cap terminal to ground.  Especially true of the lower SWR/match 
>> takes place with the impedance switch on the low side.  This is a true 
>> trial-and-error determination.  I've found that 160M antennas are more 
>> problematic in terms of attaining a match than most any other band.
>> 
>> If you have several tuners that will not match the load, then the likely 
>> choice is to change the length of the feedline some + or - 10 ft.
>> 
>> Procedurally with the 239 tuner, set the inductance to maximum value and the 
>> capacitor value to #2. Then switch between the Lo Z #1  and Hi Z #1 
>> positions noting which shows the lower SWR.  Alternate adjust the Capacitor 
>> and inductor for the lowest reading. Should the capacitor be maxed out then 
>> switch to the next value.
>> 
>> I do recall that some tuners have a reversed notation in that a capacitor 
>> value of 0 is maximum C while on others a value of 0 is minimum C. 
>> Personally, I looked inside the box to see where maximum C occurs and 
>> maximum L occurs with regard to the scaling and made notes accordingly.
>> 
>> In my case for 160M and the internal balun, the Z switch required selected 
>> values of 3, 4, or 5 depending on frequency while the L value is about 20 to 
>> 24 on the 0 - 30 number scale.
>> 
>> 73
>> Bob, K4TAX
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Bryce" <prosolar@sssnet.com>
>> To: "Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment" <tentec@contesting.com>
>> Sent: Monday, October 14, 2013 4:52 PM
>> Subject: Re: [TenTec] Antenna is up, but the coupler doesn't like 160 meters
>> 
>> 
>>> Jim,
>>> 
>>> 
>>> The antenna is a doublet up 50 feet inverted vee style.
>>> 
>>> It is feed with about 170 ish feet of 600 ohm open line.
>>> 
>>> None of the couplers can find a tuning solution
>>> 
>>> 
>>> All other bands work fine
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPad at Aultman hospital.
>>> 
>>> Mike wb8vge
>>> 
>>>> On Oct 14, 2013, at 11:09 AM, Jim GM <jim.gmforum@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi Mike, WB8VGE
>>>> 
>>>> Hope your surgery goes well for you.
>>>> 
>>>> I have gone and still going thru issues with my inverted L on 160M like
>>>> 
>>>> your having.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> How long is your antenna?  Is it a dipole or Folded dipole?  I did not
>>>> see on your post the answers to these questions.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> How high do you have it?
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Your going to find or have found that the tuner you have and other
>>>> tuners will not work on 160M. They just cannot handle a near 50 ohm
>>>> match or less no matter what they claim. All they want is your money.
>>>> 
>>>> So you need to add additional matching out side the shack with coils
>>>> and homemade capacitors made from coax cable, thats if you have a
>>>> limited junk box like I do.
>>>> 
>>>> Any ways the external matching will aid your tuner in the shack to take
>>>> care of the rest.
>>>> 
>>>> It will take some time and it is not a quick fix.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -- 
>>>> Jim K9TF
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> 
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>>> 
>> 
>> 
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