Probably easier to get a new house built than to rebuild a station!
From: "cq-contest-request@contesting.com"
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Sent: Friday, October 30, 2015 2:55 PM
Subject: CQ-Contest Digest, Vol 154, Issue 45
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Remote station antenna disconnection methods? (Gerry Hull)
2. Re: Self-spotting in-debth (Tim Shoppa)
3. Re: Self-spotting in-debth (Tim Shoppa)
4. Re: When do we spot? Should it be required? (Gerry Hull)
5. Re: Remote station antenna disconnection methods? (Jim Brown)
6. Re: Self-spotting in-debth (Ed Sawyer)
7. Re: Remote station antenna disconnection methods? (Jim Brown)
8. Re: N1MM Auto-spotting Change (W0MU)
9. SSB: Don't self spot, use the RBN like CW... (Gerry Hull)
10. Re: Remote station antenna disconnection methods? (N2TK, Tony)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2015 10:56:14 -0400
From: Gerry Hull <gerry@yccc.org>
To: "john@kk9a.com" <john@kk9a.com>
Cc: CQ-Contest <cq-contest@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Remote station antenna disconnection
methods?
Message-ID:
<CABPfG-7=SZ_DyX6S4L2K9xWS92bySLihmptqpgXaKs31w4GfwA@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
This summer, we took about an expensive hit at K2LE/1's station in Vermont
-- Luckily covered by insurance -- but still a PITA fo fix.
This station is primarily operated remotely except for the big 4.
It was probably a one-in-50-year storm. If you ever need to make an
insurance claim, buy the $99 report from here:
http://www.vaisala.com/en/products/thunderstormandlightningdetectionsystems/Pages/strikenet.aspx
Incredibly details reports on any strike in the US. The maps for our hit
looked like a DOD strike map. More than 5 strikes within 1/8th mile of the
shack..
Anyway, our strike did not come in via the antennas on any of the four
towers. It came in via the DSL line, destroying the DSL Modem, several
switches, two computers connected to those switches, an FT1K MP connected
via one of the computers, and, unfortunately, the control electronics in a
Hammation 2x8 antenna switch, via the USB (ALL the RF was fine.)
Protect as much as you can, but I believe it is very difficult to protect
against a direct hit. Of course, it is often induction, and NOT the
antenna system that will get you.
73, Gerry W1VE
On Fri, Oct 30, 2015 at 6:34 AM, john@kk9a.com <john@kk9a.com> wrote:
> Disconnecting the cables helps, but it is not enough to protect your
> electronics from a direct hit and it is impossible to do with a remote
> station. Lightning energy from a strike will be induced into your house
> wiring even with the cables disconnected. Lots of ground rods, a single
> point ground and whole house surge protector is a good start for
> protection.
>
> John KK9A
>
>
> To: K5WA <K5WA@comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Remote station antenna disconnection
> methods?
> From: Charles Harpole <hs0zcw@gmail.com>
> Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2015 07:10:42 +0700
>
>
> I have extensive practical experience with lightning and also collect first
> person reports. I know for sure one inch is not enough to foil nearby
> strikes' energy. I have seen two to three inch discharging spark from one
> coax to another in my patch panel, and the lightning was count of two to
> five away (counting between flash and thunder to estimate distance).
>
> I totally reject lightning arrestors as ineffective in the ham setting.
>
> Personally, I remove all coax and control lines from a window patch panel
> and lay the wires that go to my equipment three to six FEET from the
> panel. Before reconnecting at that panel, I touch the shield side of each
> coax socket to the center; I once got a spark discharge.
>
> Of course, a direct hit can ruin outdoor antennas, but in my case of three
> direct hits, damaging lightning energy did not get to my radios.
>
> Good luck, 73, Charly
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> CQ-Contest mailing list
> CQ-Contest@contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
>
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2015 11:02:11 -0400
From: Tim Shoppa <tshoppa@gmail.com>
To: cq-contest@contesting.com
Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Self-spotting in-debth
Message-ID:
<CAJ_qRvY9=i2NObgxbtKbqQkzRVrpHpMHriChbckGaGqeS_-dcQ@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
K0HB writes:
> An assisted operation will result in a higher score. That's the whole
point of using assistance.
Assistance will help score only if it is effectively used.
Effective use for me, means that if I can't work the spot in a few seconds
that I move on to doing something else (CQ'ing, finding other S&P
opportunities, whatever) and come back later.
But there are many other ways small-guns use assistance for a huge variety
of reasons. Maybe they're just looking for new DXCC bands for a few
entities and they never listen to the band. Maybe they're not effective
users of assistance, and they get stuck trying to work the same spot for
many minutes instead of seconds. Or even worse, they waste time chasing
busted spots or effectively unworkable spots. For these guys, assistance
will actually decrease their contest score compared to if they were
actually listening to the band and making Q's.
Tim N3QE
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2015 11:35:28 -0400
From: Tim Shoppa <tshoppa@gmail.com>
To: cq-contest@contesting.com
Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Self-spotting in-debth
Message-ID:
<CAJ_qRvbUANrsRXTC8yBa8oPR6FQFM2EpT5XWdgm1OJ8NUD1TXw@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
N2IC writes:
> Comparing the scores of unassisted to assisted operators is like
comparing apples-to-oranges.
Indeed, it is apples-to-oranges. Look at the top 3 ASSISTED LP in ARRL DX
CW this year:
KB3WD 2.9M
W3KB 2.8M
N1EN 2.7M
Then look at top 3 UNASSISTED LP in ARRL DX CW this year:
K1ZM 5.1M
W1UE 4.3M
N5AW 3.6M
In many contests the top scores go to those who entered unassisted. This
doesn't mean that assistance hurts scores, it just means that folks choose
assisted vs unassisted for a wide variety of reasons (including WRTC
qualification details.)
Tim N3QE
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2015 11:35:53 -0400
From: Gerry Hull <gerry@yccc.org>
To: Mike Smith VE9AA <ve9aa@nbnet.nb.ca>
Cc: CQ-Contest <cq-contest@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] When do we spot? Should it be required?
Message-ID:
<CABPfG-7X7DfiPmtj3CGY-Y5uYmic5rzJ8-buZjwKyac_VyKeSw@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Hi Mike,
It was me about the CW squawk.
.
I'm testing it with VE4EA... (My K3 front end got blown up by an in-band
mistake at K6ND last weekend).
Anyway, I made a 60 wpm wave file for "CQ VE4EA". For that sequence, it is
1 second long. I would suggest
that it not squawk on every transmission, but every N transmissions or few
mins. One second is nothing.
If you want a "CQ VE9AA" wav file, I'll send you one.
I'll let people know the results when we are finished testing.
This is a WAV file test, sending in SSB mode. (SSB + CW tone) = CW.
It'll be interesting to see how RBN reacts.
73, Gerry W1VE/VE1RM
On Thu, Oct 29, 2015 at 4:18 PM, Mike Smith VE9AA <ve9aa@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote:
> I have been watching this thread with great interest.
>
>
>
> As a small to barely medium pop gun I struggle to get spotted on SSB.
>
> A couple others in my area have huge superstations and are perhaps the only
> thing being heard as the band opens and closes to vrious areas, so get
> spotted easily on SSB.
>
>
>
> Even so, there are times they are on the bands working EU's by the
> bucketload (some of whom I COULD be working, but the cluster/telnet/someone
> only has their call on the bandmap and folks are getting used to not
> spinning the knob)
>
> This past weekend has proven (read the 3830 reports and be in the contest
> for all the evidence you need) that a lot of folks are simply clicking on
> spots, yet
>
> do not know how to (or choose not to) spin the big knob anymore. The
> smaller SSB ops are at a distinct disadvantage. Unless you are uber rare
> or
> uber loud, your chances of getting spotted go way down.
>
>
>
> *IF* smaller stns such as myself were to be spotted, we'd have a much
> fairer
> crack at running as well.same as I do on CW.
>
>
>
> Of course the solution is to build a bigger station, but right now it is
> weighted heaviest towards the big or rare guys.
>
>
>
> I do not notice nearly the disparity on CW. I am 3dB in Wales and someone
> else nearby might be 35dB, but we both get CW spots. If the DX can't hear
> my 3dB signal, it's
>
> on me to improve that or "suck it up Princess" as they say. On SSB it's
> not
> nearly as fair. (Yeah, sux to have a weaker signal, I know, I know)
>
>
>
> I also know not everyone has (cheap) Internet or can tie up the phone line
> (modems, remember them?) and or even Internet access at all ! I don't
> think
> that's going to work.
>
>
>
> So, what's the solution? Who was it that said the 70wpm squawk on CW?
> What's the max speed that could be done at I wonder? Even @ 70wpm, that
> seems like it's going to eat a lot of time up over a contest
>
> as the spotting should be continuous (every CQ), the same way it is on CW.
> (Subaudible tones CW?)
>
>
>
> That would be ideal..something that can be generated by the operator over
> the air until the RBN's speech recognition catches up. (which might be
> decades)
>
>
>
> Mike VE9AA
>
>
>
> Mike, Coreen & Corey
>
> Keswick Ridge, NB
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> CQ-Contest mailing list
> CQ-Contest@contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
>
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2015 09:40:13 -0700
From: Jim Brown <k9yc@audiosystemsgroup.com>
To: cq-contest@contesting.com
Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Remote station antenna disconnection
methods?
Message-ID: <56339D6D.9070902@audiosystemsgroup.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
On Thu,10/29/2015 12:02 PM, K5WA wrote:
> Has anyone got a solution that they've used successfully at a frequent
> lightning remote site?
This discussion came up this week on the Topband reflector. Study what
W8JI has to say on the topic. Also study my material on bonding and
grounding. He and I are in complete agreement -- bonding is far more
important than grounding (and both are important).
Here's my take on it. http://k9yc.com/GroundingAndAudio.pdf
Understand these fundamental concepts.
1) EVERYTHING in a premises must be bonded together. Separate grounds
not bonded to others are a CAUSE of lightning damage. The principle is
to allow everything in the premises to rise to the same (high) potential
at the time of the strike.
2) NEVER use shunt mode surge protectors on branch circuits. They are a
CAUSE of lightning damage. As an alternative, use either a "whole house"
protector at the service entrance, and/or SurgeX series mode protectors
on branch circuits.
3) All antennas should be coax-fed, with shields bonded at a common
entry point, with that point bonded to all premises grounds. That puts
the shield at ground potential. Use an feed-through arrestor on each
coax to short the center conductor to the shield. This limits the
voltage at the RX input.
4) Carefully bond together the chassis of every piece of gear on your
operating desk using short, fat copper. Bond from chassis to chassis in
parallel with any audio and control cables running between them. This
prevents a strike from exciting Pin One Problems, which would otherwise
likely cause damage. Virtually ALL ham gear has Pin One Problems on
audio and control connectors, including Elecraft rigs.
Here's an K3-specific trick that K6XX told me about. Use Ant2 for all
bands, with antenna switching external to the radio. When you shut down
the K3 (by turning them off, NOT by killing power), it will connect Ant1
to the radio, to which nothing is connected.
73, Jim K9YC
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2015 14:05:35 -0400
From: "Ed Sawyer" <sawyered@earthlink.net>
To: "Peter Dougherty \(W2IRT\)" <contesting@w2irt.net>,
<cq-contest@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Self-spotting in-debth
Message-ID: <000001d1133d$93f69a80$bbe3cf80$@earthlink.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
W2IRT says "In 2015 it's crazy to expect a medium-sized station to spin the
knob and operate unassisted if that station wants to have a shot at 2M or
3M. Maybe once, but not any longer. "
Really? I operated 2012, 2013, and 2014 SOAB Unassisted LOW POWER and had
final scores from 3.9 Million to 4.9 Million points. I have a 2 tower
station with both towers 70 ft high.
There are 11 other scores in the same 3 year period, all over 2 Million from
SOABLP Unassisted stations and almost all have single towers. Many no
higher than mine.
While I think its becoming greatly unfair for spotting to be subjective and
a popularity contest given how critical getting spotted is to stations like
W2IRT (and I think he represents the majority out there), thankfully its not
at all crazy to make great scores just spinning the dial. A lot of us not
only still do it - we love doing it.
73
Ed N1UR
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2015 11:09:02 -0700
From: Jim Brown <k9yc@audiosystemsgroup.com>
To: cq-contest@contesting.com
Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Remote station antenna disconnection
methods?
Message-ID: <5633B23E.4060001@audiosystemsgroup.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
On Fri,10/30/2015 7:56 AM, Gerry Hull wrote:
> Anyway, our strike did not come in via the antennas on any of the four
> towers. It came in via the DSL line, destroying the DSL Modem, several
> switches, two computers connected to those switches, an FT1K MP connected
> via one of the computers, and, unfortunately, the control electronics in a
> Hammation 2x8 antenna switch, via the USB (ALL the RF was fine.)
This is a perfect example of why
1) BONDING together of ALL grounded systems and equipment is so important
2) shunt mode (MOV) protectors on branch circuits CAUSE destructive
failure. The only safe (non-destructive) surge protection on branch
circuits is SERIES-MODE. SurgeX is the major mfr of series-mode
protectors. They aren't cheap, but neither is the stuff you blew up, and
a single 20A unit can run everything in most single-op stations except
240V power amps.
Study http://k9yc.com/GroundingAndAudio.pdf
73, Jim K9YC
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2015 12:35:00 -0600
From: W0MU <w0mu@w0mu.com>
To: cq-contest@contesting.com
Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] N1MM Auto-spotting Change
Message-ID: <5633B854.7050606@w0mu.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
Why would the program not figure out that it was in run mode if two
contacts were made on the same frequency back to back?
Forgetting to set run mode is a pretty common issue.
On 10/29/2015 7:45 PM, David Siddall wrote:
> I updated N1MM+ today, and indeed it includes the revision to spotting.
> The notes explain it thusly:
>
> "For each Entry Window, do not auto spot QSOs if successive QSOs are on the
> same frequency. This is for those who forget to set run mode when running.
> (K6LL) (Coded by N1MM)"
>
> 73, Dave K3ZJ
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 29, 2015 at 7:29 PM, Ken Low <kenke3x@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>> The key word here is "RUNNING." Nothing worse than seeing someone with
>> "Spot all S&P QSOs" turned on when they are actually running a frequency
>>> (Pro tip: You should be in Run mode then.) Dozens of mults that aren't
>>> really there piled up in the band map on top of each other, so then I
>> have
>>> to block the spotter to keep the bandmap and the mult window clear.
>> "I am happy to report that, thanks to N1MM, this will be changed in the
>> next release of N1MM Logger+.
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> Steve"
>>
>> THANK YOU Steve !!!!
>>
>> There were a whole bunch of stations who polluted the band map last
>> weekend by spotting while running. Even after being told repeatedly what
>> was happening, they did nothing about it, and may not even have known how
>> to change their own configuration. I can see how new or inexperienced ops
>> at a Multi could have unknowingly done this.
>>
>> Anyway it was a huge waste of time for any Assisted op trying to keep an
>> accurate band map.
>>
>> Ken KE3X
>> _______________________________________________
>> CQ-Contest mailing list
>> CQ-Contest@contesting.com
>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
>>
> _______________________________________________
> CQ-Contest mailing list
> CQ-Contest@contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2015 14:39:33 -0400
From: Gerry Hull <gerry@yccc.org>
To: CQ-Contest <cq-contest@contesting.com>
Subject: [CQ-Contest] SSB: Don't self spot, use the RBN like CW...
Message-ID:
<CABPfG-4nSrqA5o4RiBR1aUkiO-UDDFHo_ZVpa=r+AeFS9PFWTA@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
So, if you are a little pistol or a big gun, in a CW contest there is RBN.
Most are happy with that.
If you could use the RBN for SSB, like CW, no need of a self spot to get
spotted.
No rule changes either.
As I have pointed out in a few other emails, if you squawk your call in
High-speed CW during a phone event, the RBN will spot you. There is
nothing preventing you from doing this from either a contest sponsor or a
regulatory body. The only issue is that RBN might consider it CW and your
software would filter it out. That is easily fixed.
The big advantage of such an idea is that you are still sending RF, and
receivers need to be able to hear you. if No RBN is hearing you, then
there is a propagation issue.
Self-spotting over purely internet/telnet based networks will flood the
networks with crap and 75% of the spots won't produce a QSO.
Food for thought
73. Gerry W1VE.
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2015 14:45:31 -0400
From: "N2TK, Tony" <tony.kaz@verizon.net>
To: <k9yc@arrl.net>, <cq-contest@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Remote station antenna disconnection
methods?
Message-ID: <002901d11343$278fb100$76af1300$@verizon.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Jim,
Nice tip on the K3 Ant 2. Hadn't thought of that.
Tnx
N2TK, Tony
-----Original Message-----
From: CQ-Contest [mailto:cq-contest-bounces@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Jim
Brown
Sent: Friday, October 30, 2015 12:40 PM
To: cq-contest@contesting.com
Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Remote station antenna disconnection methods?
On Thu,10/29/2015 12:02 PM, K5WA wrote:
> Has anyone got a solution that they've used successfully at a frequent
> lightning remote site?
This discussion came up this week on the Topband reflector. Study what W8JI
has to say on the topic. Also study my material on bonding and grounding. He
and I are in complete agreement -- bonding is far more important than
grounding (and both are important).
Here's my take on it. http://k9yc.com/GroundingAndAudio.pdf
Understand these fundamental concepts.
1) EVERYTHING in a premises must be bonded together. Separate grounds not
bonded to others are a CAUSE of lightning damage. The principle is to allow
everything in the premises to rise to the same (high) potential at the time
of the strike.
2) NEVER use shunt mode surge protectors on branch circuits. They are a
CAUSE of lightning damage. As an alternative, use either a "whole house"
protector at the service entrance, and/or SurgeX series mode protectors on
branch circuits.
3) All antennas should be coax-fed, with shields bonded at a common entry
point, with that point bonded to all premises grounds. That puts the shield
at ground potential. Use an feed-through arrestor on each coax to short the
center conductor to the shield. This limits the voltage at the RX input.
4) Carefully bond together the chassis of every piece of gear on your
operating desk using short, fat copper. Bond from chassis to chassis in
parallel with any audio and control cables running between them. This
prevents a strike from exciting Pin One Problems, which would otherwise
likely cause damage. Virtually ALL ham gear has Pin One Problems on audio
and control connectors, including Elecraft rigs.
Here's an K3-specific trick that K6XX told me about. Use Ant2 for all bands,
with antenna switching external to the radio. When you shut down the K3 (by
turning them off, NOT by killing power), it will connect Ant1 to the radio,
to which nothing is connected.
73, Jim K9YC
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