When I get puzzled or confused, which is happening more and more often,
I consult the Doctor I see most often - a proctologist - for advice.
He opted for Proctions
Seems to me, though, that a contest sponsor can define mults any way
that he likes without being required in any way to observe boundaries
defined by anyone else, be they any level of government or other
organization. Obviously the boundaries need to be easy for contesters
to understand or the contest will die but I believe the hybrid
identified by Ward would work just fine.
For SS to be credible it must be possible to achieve a sweep, at least
in most years. Looks like there are enough contesters in the, ahem, MAR
provinces to take care of this.
I can see no downside to this proposal for RAC, ARRL or the contesting
community.
73, Jim VE7FO
On 2014-10-30 15:48, Mike & Coreen Smith VE9AA wrote:
Ward,
Thanks for your always very well thought out, reasonable and
consistently entertaining emails. It brings a smile to my face quite
honestly, to see an email from you in my inbox (even if I am hassling
you for something- OK, we won’t go there_)
I just replied to Dave K1ZZ and apologized for my blunder calling the
NCJ QSO Parties and Sprints “ARRL Sponsored”…correctly they are ARRL
published but not sponsored. My bad. I probably should’ve realized
that, but all this MAR business has me slightly on the defensive.
(hi). I am taking a beating by a small select few who seem to think I
am asking for special treatment. Indeed, all we are asking for is to
be treated EQUALLY.
If Rhode Island, Maine and Mass shared a section I would never dream
of even ASKING for a change. I don’t belive in special treatment.
I just ask for our actual real provinces to be treated like every
other ARRL section for the purposes of Sweepstakes and a select few
other contests.
Most contests (and ARRL contests) are on board. Every State in the
Union has at least one section for Sweeps, (and many have various
sections) and yet we continue to be lumped together – why ?
Although I certainly cannot speak for all contesters here in these
heretotherfore metioned netheregions, I think the general sentiment
here in MAR…err, NB, NS and PEI is to leave all the current
“sections” as they are, but to forget they ever heard the term MAR
and just make it NB, NS and PEI. We don’t have a problem with VE3
having 4 sections or California having however many it is that they
have.
The stickler is that no other current States/Provinces have been
lumped together to create a section. New sections keep appearing
every so often (wasn’t WCF not too long ago and then the 4 VE3
sections), yet all us MCCers continue to be “one section” even though
the club itself is 30 strong and there are many out here that are not
in MCC. We can definitely hold our own. VY2ZM, VE9HF, VE1OP, VE1RGB,
VE1ZA, VY2LI, VE9ML, myself , small pistol VE9AA and many to name
only a few. I am sure all those calls are quite familiar to those
reading this.
ND, VY0/VE8 or EB are sections with less representations by a long
shot.
Your list looks perfect to me.
Who do I send a quarter to so a phone call can take place between W1
and VE4 to even consider our most humble and long overdue request?
Mike VE9AA
Mike, Coreen & Corey
Keswick Ridge, NB
From: Ward Silver [mailto:hwardsil@gmail.com] Sent: October 30, 2014
7:27 PM To: Mike & Coreen Smith VE9AA; 'Cary Rubenfeld'; 'Ed
Richardson'; fdavis@nfld.net; garybartlett@accesswave.ca;
k5zd@cqww.com; kx9x@arrl.org; k1ar@contesting.com Cc: 'Bill Lester';
'JP LeBlanc'; n2ic@arrl.net; Richard Ferch; ve1dt@infinichron.com;
'Peter Csanky'; 'Phil Irons'; 'Rick VE9HF Williams';
ve1js@ns.sympatico.ca; Ve4baw@rac.ca; 'Rick Williams' Subject: Re:
FW: [CQ-Contest] Move to disband MAR section in Canada (for
contesting)
Hi Mike,
Point of order - the ARRL does not sponsor any of the NCJ contests.
The ARRL publishes NCJ but it is a relatively independent entity (not
a DXCC entity) and makes its own rules.
I looked at the NCJ Sprint rules (http://ncjweb.com/Sprint-Rules.pdf)
and multipliers for Canada are first described in Scoring Rule 10 as
"provinces" but the multiplier list then proceeds to combine all five
of the Maritime prefixes (VE1/9/VY2/VO1/VO2) into a group which is
really a section. Perhaps that can be fixed - I'll drop the editors
a note.
As to the ARRL contests, there are only two that use the MAR section
as a multiplier (Sweepstakes and 160 Meters) based on RAC sections.
Field Day does, as well, but "it's not a contest" :-) All remaining
ARRL contests use provinces more or less correctly. True that the
ARRL does not have a consistent policy across contests for counting
Canadian multipliers but it is pretty consistent in applying a
specific contest's rules.
If the rules of Sweepstakes were changed to count Canadian provinces,
then the four Ontario sections would then have to be re-combined into
a single VE3 multiplier. I'm sure the Ontarians would not be
pleased. And the three northern provinces (Yukon, Northwest
Territories, and Nunavut) would also have to be split up and counted
separately. Given the lack of VE8 and VYØ stations, I'm sure the
collectors of Clean Sweep mugs would not be pleased, either :-)
Am I correct in ascertaining that what you're really asking for is a
Canadian multiplier list neither entirely section nor province, but
rather a hybrid: VE1, VE9, VY2, VO1, VO2, VE2, VE3-ONN, VE3-ONE,
VE3-ONS, VE3-GTA, VE4, VE5, VE6, VE7, and NT (VY1-VE8-VYØ). What do
we call them - secvinces, proctions, or what?
I have no power to effect any of this - I just want to understand
what you and fellow Mari-you-know-whatters are actually asking for in
the grand scheme of things.
73, Ward N0AX
On 10/30/2014 4:58 PM, Mike & Coreen Smith VE9AA wrote:
The ARRL sponsored NCJ sprints require MAR, whereas the ARRL NCJ NA
QSO parties allow Provinces.
Some ARRL contests require MAR, whereas some require NB, NS & PEI.
There seems to be little in the way of consistency.
Thankfully, the overwhelming majority of worldwide contests,
including 90% of state run QSO parties allow “NB, NS or PEI.”
(The California QSO party being the holdout)…..folks are usually
tickled when they work VE9 for a new mult.
The continuous staunch retort from (my good friends at) the ARRL
seems to say “We follow RAC sections”, and apparently that’s that-end
of discussion. . …however if you look down the list of ARRL contests
very carefully, you’ll see only a percentage of them do. (50%?) I
don’t know – I would have to count them. Does it matter if I said 40%
or 65% really?
Even the hugely popular RAC contests here at home say “send your
province”……I have sent “NB” in every Canada Day or Canada Winter
contest that I have entered since “RAC” was the CARF. I live in NB
not a fictitious “Maritime Province”.
By saying “we follow RAC”……no, you really don’t. You only follow RAC
sections for *S-O-M-E* of the ARRL sponsored contests. ( I reckon not
even most of them)
I still also stand by the fact that no other States or Provinces are
lumped together with other States or Provinces to create a section.
(DC is the exception, but it is not a State ) I have new information
given to me today that once upon a time Georgia, SC and Cuba (of all
places) was a section, but that must surely been before I was born,
or at least the Bay of Pigs affair.
Hey, I don’t expect anyone to jump right up and change things
overnight, but look, I’ve been a VE9 for 21 years (and a ham much
longer than that). I am not CURRENTLY a RAC member, but have been in
the past. I was even a volunteer for the RAC VHF frequency committee
for VE3DS and certainly do my part to represent VE9 (NB) in the RAC
contests out of an unwritten devotion to RAC even though admittedly
they are not my favorite contests.
Usually I feel my voice is never heard and over time I will let my
RAC membership lapse.
All I am saying is that (for whatever reason) we have multiple
sections in Ontario and every other Province has their own section.
Isn’t it time for the ARRL to get onboard with 95% of other worldwide
contests and recognize that it’s time to recognize that ALL contests
under the ARRL banner should treat us equally out here?
It sure would be nice to hear from Geoff Bowden on this issue. I
have RAC folks (VE9MY and VY2LI) who’ve heard our concerns. We have
RAC representation in every province including NB, NS and PEI (and
Newfoundland/Labrador). I am not entirely certain where they stand,
but if it takes someone from RAC to initiate a change or someone from
the ARRL like N3KN or K1ZZ to pick up the phone and call Manitoba and
speak with VE4BAW, to see what needs to be done I’d gladly pay the
long distance charges. I see people at ARRL and RAC nodding, but
nobody is even CONSIDERING our request and nobody is even talking.
Thanks for your time.
Mike VE9AA “NB”
Mike, Coreen & Corey
Keswick Ridge, NB
From: Gerry Hull [mailto:gerry@yccc.org] Sent: October 30, 2014 4:31
PM To: Mike & Coreen Smith VE9AA Cc: CQ-Contest; ve5sf@rac.ca
Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Move to disband MAR section in Canada (for
contesting)
As a ex-pat Maritimer, I'd agree, from a contest perspective, it
would be wonderful to have the individual provinces as multipliers.
I'd hazard to guess, though, that the decision that drove Ontario to
have separate sections was not driven by contesting, but by the
size of the amateur population and administrative needs.
I'd say that boycotting contests that use MAR as the multiplier will
hurt your cause -- IF those in power were to consider contest
activity one of the
factors in breaking up MAR into provinces, boycotting current
contests would definitely hurt!
So, count me in support of the effort, but let me counsel you to
PARTICIPATE in ARRL contests!
Here's hoping I work a bunch of MARs in SS CW -- I'll be VE1RM/3 or
CG1RM/3 from ONE. (Ottawa is a closer drive than even St. John!)
73, Gerry W1VE
Also: VE1RM, VY2CDX, VE9XDX, VO1WIN
On Wed, Oct 29, 2014 at 4:09 PM, Mike & Coreen Smith VE9AA
<ve9aa@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote:
The following is from Al, VA1MM but I 100% support him. See my own
(VE9AA) comments below his:
VA1MM:
A group of us contesters here in the "MAR" section feel the time has
come to announce the end of the MAR section in not only ARRL contests
but all contests. When our Department of Communications (now Industry
Canada) granted us separate prefixes for New Brunswick (VE9), Nova
Scotia (VE1) and Prince Edward Island (VY2), they recognized they we
were distinct Provinces with enough Amateur Radio operators to
support a distinct call sign. And as multipliers go, why wouldn't you
want to have three new districts to work when multiplied by six bands
you have a substantial increase in your scores.
We have tried to weigh the pros and cons, the only con would be the
contest software not keeping up with the change or the operator not
downloading the newest version, but do we wait forever? Ontario (VE3)
lead the way with their divisional split, now it's time for the
Maritimes to be recognized as NS, NB and PEI
Thank-you, Al VA1MM/ VE1AWP (NS) Maritime Contest Club Member
-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.
VE9AA, Mike says:
I've been moaning and groaning about this very thing for years and
years. SOME ARRL contests force us to send MAR (a very antiquated
section) and some permit us to send NB, NS and PEI (the provinces
where we are)
Meanwhile, places like Ontario recently get 4 (count them) FOUR
sections? What the??? Do we not exist out here or what????
What if we were to combine RI, DE and ME? Who in W1 would go for
that section>? \RIDEME\
Prior to 1993, all NB, NS and PEI's were VE1's...*BUT*, News Flash>
In 1993 us "VE1's" all got NEW distinct callsign prefixes
ie: NB=VE9, NS=VE1 and PEI=VY2...there are very few left that kept
their original VE1 calls in NB or PEI. (the NS guys got to keep their
VE1's)...
We are distinct provinces, (have been for eons.) just as Maine, Rhode
Island and Delaware are. Maybe it made sense in the old days or
whatever to have us as one section as there are fewer hams here (and
we were all VE1's) , but I think you'll see as a fellow member of MCC
also, that we are well represented these days. As a point of
interest, there are so many VE1's that they also have a VA1 prefix to
choose from. If it's based on activity (I know it's not) there are
certainly ARRL and RAC sections with less activity than NB, NS and
PEI.
Even in the RAC contests we send "NB,NS and PE" so saying you "follow
RAC" does not hold water, nor does it even make sense 2+ decades
later.
I normally try to boycott most contests that force us to send "MAR"
as a silent protest. Probably nobody notices but there are others
like me out here.
Get with the times ARRL, CQP and a very select few others.
I don't know who's attention we need to get, but help us out. Rattle
some chains. Send emails to those you know,
"RAC" is not contest oriented. Why we have to follow that structure
(but only for some contests) is beyond me !?!?
Respectfully,
Mike VE9AA (proudly in NB)
Mike, Coreen & Corey
Keswick Ridge, NB
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