> > I contend the capability to pick out (basically) all the
> > signals on a band with a wide IF and software and then display
> > these data for either a human to click on them and call them,
> > or a robot to do the same, will kill the hobby.
>
> Just as I contend that allowing remote operation via commercial
> means will surely kill the hobby.
And I contend that experimentation, innovation, and just plain pushing the
envelope is a necessary part of this hobby. And if you grumpy old men try
to stifle use of modern technology by the youngsters who are going to
replace you some day they'll go find some other outlet for their talents.
CW is just another digital mode, originally copied by machine, there have
been electronic cw decoders out there for a long time and they aren't going
away so just deal with it. And remote operation isn't going away either,
its getting easier and more practical with the higher speed internet
connections getting more common.
One of these days I'll set up a fully remote m/m operation and sit here in a
nice quiet shack with all 6 stations being run remotely... with a network
of skimmers filling bandmaps from around the world. Will sure save on food
and drink here and hours of travel time with expensive fuel for my
operators!
David Robbins K1TTT
e-mail: mailto:k1ttt@arrl.net
web: http://www.k1ttt.net
AR-Cluster node: 145.69MHz or telnet://dxc.k1ttt.net
> -----Original Message-----
> From: cq-contest-bounces@contesting.com [mailto:cq-contest-
> bounces@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Joe Subich, W4TV
> Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 15:12
> To: 'Jim George'
> Cc: cq-contest@contesting.com
> Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Re; Skimmer Ultimate Setup
>
>
The difference is that Skimmer
> technology will change the hobby and we can adapt to that change.
> replacing one part of the communications channel from operator
> to operator with commercial communications channels means that
> forward looking regulators can decide if one part of the channel
> can be replaced by commercial means, the entire channel can be
> replaced by commercial means and the defining characteristic of
> amateur radio (person to person communication by RF/ionosphere)
> is lost completely.
>
> > It is time for the broader thinking people to step in and
> > rule out this capability.
>
> The same can be said for remote operation. If you believe your
> thesis that some technologies, while interesting, are simply not
> compatible with amateur radio you must draw the same line for
> ALL technologies that have the potential to significantly change
> amateur radio. Now, where would that line have been drawn?
>
> CW significantly changed amateur radio in the days of spark ...
> AM significantly changed amateur radio in the days of CW ..
> SSB significantly changed amateur radio in the days of AM ...
> The transistor significantly changed amateur radio from the
> days of tube radios ...
> Digital Signal Processing is significantly changing amateur
> radio ...
> The personal computer has significantly changed amateur radio in
> many ways - from logging to digital mode operation to CW decoding ...
>
> Technology moves on - both amateur radio in general and contesting
> specifically will change. Contesting will adapt to technology
> adapt technology to contesting but that does not mean one should
> "ban" any technology that makes the single operator more productive.
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Jim George [mailto:n3bb@mindspring.com]
> > Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 8:04 AM
> > To: Joe Subich, W4TV
> > Cc: cq-contest@contesting.com
> > Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Re; Skimmer Ultimate Setup
> >
> >
> > Joe, you and I are on different philosophical wavelengths on this and
> > remote operations.
> >
> > I contend the capability to pick out (basically) all the
> > signals on a band
> > with a wide IF and software and then display these data for
> > either a human
> > to click on them and call them, or a robot to do the same,
> > will kill the
> > hobby.
> >
> > It is time for the broader thinking people to step in and
> > rule out this
> > capability. It's technically correct that the technology is contained
> > within the local station, so I agree that following closely
> > the rule of
> > allowing one's single-op technology to produce productivity
> > improvements
> > lies within the framework of traditional efficiency
> > increases. But I also
> > contend that this leads to automatic robotic operation,
> > certainly not good
> > for the sport in my opinion.
> >
> > The solution is practical; simply state that all signals must
> > be copied by
> > humans. This will allow RTTY contesting to progress along the
> > Skimmer/robotic path. But SSB and CW contests need to remain
> > "human-based."
> >
> > Jim George N3BB
> >
> > At 01:22 PM 3/21/2008 -0400, you wrote:
> >
> > > > To say there is a difference between an packet connection feeding
> > > > information that was generated by another operator OR another
> > > > operator's Skimmer setup and "owning your own" wide-band receiver
> > > > which feeds the same information to your software is really
> > > > splitting hairs.
> > >
> > >There is absolutely a clear, bright, absolute difference between
> > >information (not "spots") that comes from one's own station and
> > >information generated by other operators whether it be from packet,
> > >talent or the next room. Far from splitting a hair, the
> > difference is
> > >as fundamental as north vs. south or east vs. west.
> > >
> > >There is no "hair splitting" at all - assistance means
> > assistance from
> > >another human operator. It does not count automation in any form
> > >whether that be a memory keyer/DVK, computer logging or even the
> > >"station owner" fixing antennas or amplifiers so the
> > operator can keep
> > >his butt in the chair.
> > >
> > >CW Skimmer is in the category of memory keyer/DVK, computer
> > >logging/duping or mechanical pencils. That ship sailed 40 years ago.
> > >
> > >73,
> > >
> > > ... Joe, W4TV
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: cq-contest-bounces@contesting.com
> > > > [mailto:cq-contest-bounces@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Stan
> > > > Stockton
> > > > Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 10:21 AM
> > > > To: cq-contest@contesting.com
> > > > Subject: [CQ-Contest] Re; Skimmer Ultimate Setup
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Let's see if I have this right..... Many people are making the
> > > > assumption that Skimmer is just another tool for the
> > Single Operator
> > > > UNASSISTED Category entrant?
> > > >
> > > > I have hope there are enough who can see beyond today who believe
> > > > this is a tool for the Single Operator ASSISTED category. To say
> > > > there is a
> > > > difference between an packet connection feeding
> > information that was
> > > > generated by another operator OR another operator's Skimmer
> > > > setup and "owning your own" wide-band receiver which feeds
> > > > the same information to your software is really splitting hairs.
> > > >
> > > > In my opinion, If you are unassisted, you do not have any
> > THING or
> > > > any ONE telling you the callsign and frequency of a
> > station that you
> > > > can work to improve your score.
> > > >
> > > > The ultimate set up, if it is allowed, is write software to have
> > > > your rig QSY to the most appropriate spot (based on where
> > your yagi
> > > > is pointed, which spot will most likely improve your
> > score the most
> > > > and have the rig make the
> > > > contact and log it for you and then go to the next one.
> > > > Same set up on the run frequency. The more rigs you have the
> > > > better your score will be. I can see it now "Oh, cool!. I
> > > > worked VU2PTT the first night on 20M and the computer moved
> > > > him to 40M where I also worked him. Never heard him, but saw
> > > > him in the log.
> > > >
> > > > It makes me want to go find my golf clubs instead of
> > thinking about
> > > > radio 24/7.
> > > >
> > > > Stan, K5GO
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > CQ-Contest mailing list
> > > > CQ-Contest@contesting.com
> > > > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
> > >
> > >_______________________________________________
> > >CQ-Contest mailing list
> > >CQ-Contest@contesting.com
> > >http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
> >
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> CQ-Contest mailing list
> CQ-Contest@contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
_______________________________________________
CQ-Contest mailing list
CQ-Contest@contesting.com
http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
|