David said: """Its no secret that mal doesn't like packet or anything to do
with it"""
David that remark is so far from the truth it would be laughable if it weren't
so, blatantly, patently, wrong.
First I am connected to the DX Packet-Cluster 24/7, except during contests
which I participate in. Back in the 80's when the Packet-Cluster was in it's
infancy I thought the concept was so good I became one of the early sysops.
Within a few months it became very clear to me that the little localized
Clusters were very limited in the information they could provide. I fought
tooth and nail, yes fought, bloody fights, to create a regionalized network. I
wanted the San Diego DX Club, The Southern California DX Association, and The
Central Arizona DX Club to be linked together. I will admit I was over zealous,
sometimes, in my attempts to make it a reality. I could see back then what a
useful tool in day-to-day DX'ing tool a linked cluster system could become.
There are people in those 3 DX Clubs to this very day who will still not speak
to me because they were so dead against linking the clubs together and fought
against me so hard. During this same time period W6GO had develope
d a domestic link using RTTY on 30m. I decided to electronically siphon off
those spots and put them on the local cluster. You would have thought I raped
somebody's sister. The local 2 meter FM intercom came alive with "turn that
'crap' off". My phone rang off the hook.
Here's the really fun part: I was 100% sure the cluster would be extremely
useful during contests. NEVER EVER for the individual spots but as a
propagation tool. It NEVER EVER entered my mind to 'cherry-pick' spots I wanted
to know what band to be on at what time. I always had enough confidence to know
I could find stations to work, I just wanted to be on the right band at the
right time. Yes I think the description for that is naive. As recently as
yesterday I spotted a JA on 75 meters. I was asked why I spotted a JA, they are
a dime-a-dozen. I spotted the JA to point out the band was beginning to open to
the Pacific.
So you see David not only do I not hate packet clusters but in some very tiny
small part I had a hand in where it is today.
73
MAL N7MAL
BULLHEAD CITY, AZ
http://www.ctaz.com/~suzyq/N7mal.htm
http://geocities.com/n7mal/
Don't worry about the world coming to an end today.
It's already tomorrow in Australia
----- Original Message -----
From: David Robbins K1TTT
To: 'Cq-Contest Reflector'
Sent: Friday, October 14, 2005 11:05
Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Domestic Contest Spots/Cheating
Its no secret that mal doesn't like packet or anything to do with it. so he
will take any opportunity to point fingers and make packet and those who use
it look bad. He said he had lots of examples, published one and got soundly
rebuffed I think... how about the rest mal, they just as convincing? Or do
you need more examples to show that single data points in a complex
statistical world like contests don't prove cheating?
Just a case to note, when I publish my packet analysis after a contest I
leave out much more than I put in. what you see in those reports are just
the 'obvious' ones, the 99% sure something is wrong level. there are many
more in every contest that rise above the 50% suspicion mark that I ignore
because the pattern is not convincing. When contest log checkers request
the raw data they may be able to add the other side of the puzzle and find
more but even looking at it from the relatively large pool of spot data from
the whole network can't find everything. looking at a handful of specific
spots and one contest log can't prove anything.
David Robbins K1TTT
e-mail: mailto:k1ttt@arrl.net
web: http://www.k1ttt.net
AR-Cluster node: 145.69MHz or telnet://dxc.k1ttt.net
> -----Original Message-----
> From: cq-contest-bounces@contesting.com [mailto:cq-contest-
> bounces@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Bob Naumann - W5OV
> Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2005 13:01
> To: 'Cq-Contest Reflector'
> Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Domestic Contest Spots/Cheating
>
> Mal,
>
> If I understand you correctly, you assume that someone is cheating if they
> work you after you were spotted? How far after a spot do you extend that
> belief? Is it a "within x minutes after a packet spot everyone I work is
> a
> cheater" thing?
>
> How do you know that the person did not just happen to tune by or perhaps
> might hear the mini-pileup that sometimes results from a packet spot and
> stop to work you?
>
> I would like to understand how you reach this type of conclusion.
>
> 73,
>
> Bob W5OV
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: N7MAL [mailto:N7MAL@CITLINK.NET]
> Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2005 2:10 AM
> To: Ken Widelitz; Cq-Contest Reflector
> Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Domestic Contest Spots/Cheating
>
> What an interesting posting Ken. In a single posting you validated what I
> said about my participation in the contest and the fact that I had been
> spotted several times on the cluster. You then proceeded to make the
> majority of the rest of your posting about you and your effort.
> Unfortunately and sadly, very sadly, Ken you managed to get some facts
> mixed-up. Because you got your facts mixed-up I am going to show you, and
> others, exactly how well I have last years SS documented.
> N2IC Steve in New Mexico posted this information:
> W6ZZZ 3563.1 N7MAL 0430 07 Nov
> 2004
> It is a copy of a spot during the SS showing at 0430Z W6ZZZ spotted me on
> my
> run freq.
>
> At 0436Z I worked K6LA on 3563, he sent me number 628 and I sent K6LA my
> number 262.
> Ken submitted his log as a 'B'(single op).
> Ken in his own words claimed to have not worked me.
> Yet he did work me and worked me a few minutes after I was spotted, what
> an
> amazing set of coincidences...!!...(also the QSO is confirmed on LOTW) I
> never did any S&P on 75m only a run freq.
>
> I'm not accusing Ken of anything. Ken has been around a long time and is
> an
> excellent contester. He shows up in my master logbook 15 times in many
> various and different contests since the year 2000. He doesn't need packet
> spots to find and work me 300 miles away. OOOORRRR
>
> This is exactly why I won't publish names and
> callsigns........................................
>
> MAL N7MAL
> BULLHEAD CITY, AZ
> http://www.ctaz.com/~suzyq/N7mal.htm
> http://geocities.com/n7mal/
> Don't worry about the world coming to an end today.
> It's already tomorrow in Australia
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Ken Widelitz
> To: Cq-Contest Reflector
> Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 1:57
> Subject: [CQ-Contest] Domestic Contest Spots/Cheating
>
>
> Mal, N7MAL, complained about being worked by stations in the single op
> category after his station was spotted in SS & NAQP. In his post he
> stated
> "If it happened once, or maybe even twice, it might be coincidence but
> over
> several contests it is no longer coincidence but cheating."
>
>
> While watching the Angels/White Sox game I compiled the following
> statistics
> from 2001 - 2005 regarding ALL of N7MAL's reported operations from the
> ARRL
> web site, the CQ-CONTEST 3830 archives and DX Summit:
>
> YEAR/Contest QSOs Spots
>
> 04 CW SS 477 5
> 03 CW SS 309 3
> 02 CW SS 367 3
> 01 PH SS 77 0
> 01 CW SS 220 0
>
> 05 CW NAQP 360 1
> 04 CW NAQP 492 1
>
>
> I would note the following:
>
> 1. In each contest I made considerably more QSOs and was spotted fewer
> times. Why is this significant? Because, especially in SS, and
> especially
> on
> Sunday, "new blood" is much desired. I know I am constantly tuning the
> 2nd
> radio looking for "new blood." Every serious SS competitor is doing the
> same
> thing. Given, generally, in the last few years only 2 bands have
> significant
> activity, if you are SO2R, you are tuning just one band. You will find a
> new
> station relatively quickly without cheating.
> 2. If I hear a pileup - or see one on the bandscope, it attracts my
> attention, without the use of packet.
> 3. There is a category of Unlimited in SS. That is a single op assisted
> category. It is becoming more popular and those single ops DO get to
> jump
> on
> packet spots legally. Spots of "new blood" gets attention from this
> category.
> 4. The sample size of spots about which N7MAL is complaining is VERY
> small.
> However, given the small sample size, if the same single op station
> worked
> N7MAL in 2002, 2003 and 2004 within a few minutes of his being spotted,
> it
> would raise my eyebrows.
> 5. In checking my own logs, I see I worked N7MAL in 2001 when he had
> zero
> spots. I didn't work N7MAL in 2002, 2003 or 2004. Guess I wasn't tuning
> the
> 2nd radio hard enough.
>
> 73, Ken, K6LA / VY2TT
>
>
>
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