First, thanks to all that responded to my question concerning
hints and ideas on taking down towers. Personal safety was (and
still is) our biggest concern. We have looked into leasing/renting
a sign truck and may go that route if we decide to continue to
negotiate with the owner of the 100 footer we located.
Thanks again for the responses,
73 Wayne KC5DVT ehayes@vnet.ibm.com
Subject: 25g Disassembly
There have been lots of good discussions on erecting towers on
the reflector. Good info and I've been able to save most of it.
Most of what I didn't / couldn't save is on FOX's web site. But
now, I need advice/ideas on going the other way.
I have located a 100' Rohn 25g that my friend and I want to
take down and move to his place. We will have other helpers and
have located climbing belts, hard hats and a gin pole. One of
the helpers has done this before so we have at least some
experience to work with. I would like to hear whatever
"Hints & Kinks" you might have to offer on tearing down such
a tower. The tower has three sets of guys and only a very small
UHF/VHF business type antenna on the top section which is of the
tapered type.
Please send your responses to me and I'll summarize if there is
interest.
Thanks,
73 Wayne KC5DVT ehayes@vnet.ibm.com
Subject: Re: 25g Disassembly
The most important thing I think is to have a safe, convenient method
for prying or jacking the sections apart. Even if they were assembled
with anit-seize at the leg joints, it may take some significant force
to get the sections unstacked. I know of two methods. A local friend of mine
had some steel plates welded up with spacers so they just fit nice into
the end braces. With two such gizzies in place, you then use a small
hydraulic jack to force the sections apart. This worked, but it's a
lot of heavy tools to have up at 100 feet. keep the ground crew clear!
The other option is the Tower Jack, a tool designed for just such a
purpose. It fits onto the sections above and below, and provides
enough leverage to split the sections. I've never used one, but
it looks like it would work.
-Tony, K1KP, fisher@hp-and2.an.hp.com
Subject: Re: 25g Disassembly
Outside of the obvious on crimped legs defying removal, the number
one requirement is TEMPORARY GUYs. You don't know what the footing
or guys are about, so get lots of rope and guy the heck out of it
as you bring it down. Stay healthy - not enough of us left!
73 --Del, KL7HF--
Subject: RE: 25g Disassembly
Hi Wayne,
A jack from a Dodge Omni is a good thing to have. 25 G sections have a great
tendency to stick together, and it's likely you will have to break them
apart. Place the jack near the leg before jacking, and use it at six places
at each section.
BE SURE not to be on the tower when the last set of guys is removed. These
things sometimes rust from the inside out, and I've seen one with no
exterior rust fall over when the last set was removed.
73
Bill K5FUV
----------
First, check the BASE to make sure it is adaquete to support the tower
and people on it.
Safety in taking DOWN towers is always more dicey than putting them up as
you ususally know who poured the base.
As to H&K's a small jack and couple of pieces of 2 x 4 come in handy for
those sections that get stuck. We use a small jack quite a bit.
Usually commercial type towers are easy enuf to come apart if they aren't
rusted too badly. If they are then WD40....
Good luck and I can't stress the safety issue too highly on "old" unknown
towers. There are several in this town that have been condemned by our
take-down committee. We actually had one local killed not long ago from a
base estimated to be 3-4 bags of pre-mix.
The worst are towers which have lengths of sections longer than the gin
pole they aren't easy.
--
Jay
Subject: Re: 25g Disassembly
Hi Wayne...
Get in touch with Ken Kopp, K0PP. He has to be one of the
gurus of tower recycling. He says that he has taken down
many towers of all types, and has a really well constructed
antenna farm up in Montana.
Try Ken at:
k0pp@mcimail.com
Good luck.
Alan, K6XO
alan@es.com
See you in the Utah Centennial QSO Party, August 24/25, 1996
Subject: RE: 25g Disassembly
Wayne,
Please send me any results you get to your request. I'll be dismantling my
100' 25G tower this summer, and I would appreciated any tips you could pass
along.
I did purchase the "Tower Jack" to use when I start. I haven't tried it yet,
but it looks like it should be of great assistance in separating sections.
73 and good luck James/kd1ng
setzler@c813.npt.nuwc.navy.mil
From: "Dr. Eugene Zimmerman" <ezimmerm@DGS.dgsys.com>
Subject: Re: 25g Disassembly
Wayne
You said gin pole but did not say what kind. If it is the Rohn gin pole
designed for dealing with #25 it would be easier.
How hard it is will depend on whether the original erector used something
kind of conducting lubricant like Penetrox A or NoAlox on the legs. If
so they will pop out when you lift on the gin pole like the day the tower
was erected.
If not the legs could sieze and give you plenty of grief. I have seen
others use both car jacks and even large jacks (like house and deck
jacks). That should be a 2 person job on the tower to be safe with the
ground man wearing a hard hat and looking up. If one of those falls on
you, you're toast!! In any case you need mechanical advantage if the
legs are corroded.
An alternative if you know the right people is to use a crane to drop the
whole tower in one piece :-) But don't pay for this if you can't get it
free (or for a few beers - after the tower is down). The gin pole should
work just fine.
You should also send mail directly to Steve, K7LXC, who has helped lots of
others on the reflector with tower questions. He is a professional tower
installer and I find his advice to be quite useful and accurate.
k7lxc@aol.com
Good luck es 73
Gene W3ZZ
From: "David L. Thompson" <thompson@mindspring.com>
Subject: Taking down 25G
One of the things you will need is a "tower jack" to easily remove stuck
sections. The best one is made by WB0W, Inc. Gaylen can be reached at
816-364-2691 or 2692. Haven't tried his E-mail lately but try
bbdr21a@prodigy.com. He also makes a great ginpole.
Tell him Dave Thompson, K4JRB, editor of the 1996 Amateur Radio Mail Order
Catalog and Resource Directory said to call him. He goes to Dayton too.
73, Dave K4JRB
From: tigger@prairienet.org (Sean E. Kutzko)
To: ehayes@VNET.IBM.COM
Subject: Re: 25g Disassembly
Reply-To: tigger@prairienet.org
Hi, Wayne-
I'd be very interested in the info you collect on disassembling Rohn 25;
I'm in need of that precise info relatively soon (less than 2 months).
Thanks!
Sean
--
Sean Kutzko Amateur Radio: KF9PL
Urbana, IL WWW=http://hobbes.ncsa.uiuc.edu/sean/ DXCC:306 wkd/302 cfmd
"Maybe you'll find your way someday...
but while you're at it, you'll have some fun." -Little Feat
From: Bruce Lallathin <aa8u@voyager.net>
Subject: Re: 25g Disassembly
At 08:59 AM 3/20/96 CST, you wrote:
Hello Wayne,
I have done a LOT of tower intalls and tear-downs over the past 30 years. I
used to work for RCA Service Company and have a lot of tower mileage, (kinda
like airtime for pilots..hi) Take this advice for what you feel it is worth
and don't rely on mine alone.
Unless you know who put it up, their qualifications, if it was done
properly, and is known to be structurally sound (among other factors), then
pass! Purchase new tower and install it properly.
I have found numerous Uhf/Vhf commercial installations that were
"professionally" installed improperly over the years and the risk is not
worth it. I would be especially cautious of any used Ham/CB towers as they
have likely been overloaded as well as all the other possibilities.
If you sight up the tower and it is not string straight, if the legs are
pinched by over-tightening the bolts (very common), if it is rusty, or
dented, or if the cross braces have been damaged....PASS! You must consider
the climate it is in, if it has been accumulating water in the tubes because
the base was improperly installed. Check carefully they guying. Is it still
sound? Was it done right to begin with? If you have ANY doubts, PASS! Save
your bucks a bit longer and do it right the first time.
There are so many unseen potential hazards. I would skip any used tower that
you are not sure about in all respects. When you think about it, new tower
is really cheap compared to what one disaster could cost you.
When you make a mistake on a tower, it is often the last you will make.
Please keep this in mind and don't feel I am lecturing you. One of my good
friends fell to his death because he did not have a decent safety belt and
relied on an old leather-strap power company cast off. Something else to
keep in mind. If you have to borrow a safety belt, then that tells me a
lot.....please don't be offended.
There are a lot of things to carefully consider Wayne. Hope you are successful!
73,
Bruce AA8U
From: John Brosnahan <broz@csn.net>
Subject: Re: 25g Disassembly
Wayne, obviously it comes down in the opposite sequence of
going up, but there are two areas of concern.
1) Rohn 25 sections can sometimes be pulled apart with the gin pole
and possibly some "rocking" help on the tower. But it may require
more force than that. In the past a small scissors jack or hydraulic
jack has been inserted between sections to lift them apart if need
be. Recently I have been using a "pry bar" tool that I fabricated
myself from two pieces of 3/8 x 2 inch aluminum bar stock. It
is similar to the one called the Tower Jack and written about in
NCJ's column "Up the Tower" (p27) in the May/June 95 issue.
It is available from N5UHL/WB5JLZ at 504-924-7708.
2) The most important thing to note is that you can never assume
that the first 30ft of a tower is self-supporting when that last set of
guys is removed. Unless you KNOW the size and condition of the
concrete, the type and manner of installation of the first section (in
the concrete), and the condition of the inside of the legs just above
the concrete (free of rust) then you must assume that it will not
self support and you need to act accordingly. Either use temporary
guys once you get down to the bottom, or let the last 30ft fall
over if conditions permit--you can usually let up to about 60 or 70 feet
of Rohn 25 fall over onto a grassy/soft area with no damage, but I
prefer tolimit that to 30 to 40 feet maximum.
Check out K7LXC's column mentioned above for a little more
advice--but he will probably respond to you directly.
GL es 73
John W0UN
John Brosnahan
La Salle Research Corp 24115 WCR 40 La Salle, CO 80645 USA
voice 970-284-6602 fax 970-284-0979 email broz@csn.net
Subject: (Fwd) 25g Disassembly
Wayne:
I would strongly suggest getting your hands on a new product called
the "tower jack". It makes it much easier to take apart the sections
with very little effort. You can find the advertisements in the
Amateur Radio Trader and I believe, the NCJ. Its about $40.00 but
well worth it. I took my 90' 25g down in December and did not have
to worry about temporary guying. However, I did have the guys
tensioned to 400lbs so the lower guys were able to keep the top
30' very stable during disassembly.
Good luck.
Rich Thorne - WB5M
rthorne@ibm.net
Subject: Tower Removal
Don't know if it's been mentioned, but what I regularly use are sign
company cranes. Unlike construction cranes, they come on smaller trucks.
The boom is typically telescoping tubing, and the ones I use can go to 100'
and lift 2000 lbs. For a tower like this, I would go up 2/3 of the way and
have the crane attach there and snug up, then drop the guys (from the ground
end). Then, simply detach the bolts on the bottom section, have the crane
pick up the tower a foot or so, and gently lay it down. Total time, 1-2
hours. I forgot, the best part about sign cranes is the cost. Locally I
get them for $65 per hour, 1 hour minimum. I would NEVER do a job like this
a piece at a time again, if one of these babies was available.
73 and good luck.
Bill Sattler
N0XX/7
bills@halsey.com
DX Engineering
Subject: Re: 25g Disassembly
On Wed, 20 Mar 96 08:59:19 CST, ehayes@VNET.IBM.COM wrote:
> disassembly
I think WD9IIX had a disassembly gizmo he was selling at
Dayton last year.
--
Fred Hopengarten K1VR
Six Willarch Road * Lincoln, MA 01773-5105
home + office telephone: 617/259-0088 (FAX on demand)
internet: k1vr@k1vr.jjm.com
"Big antennas, high in the sky, are better
than small ones, low."
From: vpg@cci.com (Vic Gauvin)
Subject: Tower disassembly
I'm interested in the summary. I'll see it if you post to the reflector,
but if you don't, please forward to me at vpg@cci.com
Thanks, and good luck with the "new" Rohn.
Vic K1JUL
Rochester, NY
From: k4sb@ix.netcom.com (Edward W. Sleight )
Subject: Re: 25g Disassembly
BE PREPARED to jack the sections apart....otherwise, it's just a case
of removing the antennas, and then sections. and NEVER NEVER NEVER
stand on a section which has been unbolted!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
When I do it, I make 2 3/4" plywood pieces which will slip inside and
rest on the side supports. Put jack on bottom one, DON'T use a small
head jack like those in cars. Insert top plywood and jack the sucker
apart.....
73
Ed
Subject: rohn25
bout 15 years ago, I took 4 people including nyself. We pulled down a 140'
rohn 25 in the middle of Denham Springs, La. IN ONLY 45 Minutes. Of course
we had all done this before. We used a small hydraulic Jack and a couple
of 2 x 4's to jack the tower apart,and then let down with gin pole. This
is the safest and fastes way. The jack beats that pry bar they sell for
breaking towers apart. Much faster and easier on the 1 man on the tower.
U might need a nut splitter to split the nuts on the tower legs. U can buy
one of those at Sears or even Western Auto sell them. I ve bought several
there. DO NOT REMOVE THE LAST SET OF GUY WIRES UNTILL U HAVE A NOTHER set
about 10 ft down from it. U have no idea of how deep the 1st section is in
the ground. I have a friend that climbs towers for a living. He dropped the
guys one day. and the tower at the 30 foot mark fell on him. He come
out ok, but was really lucky. It could have killed him. As u take it
down,load the trailor or truck and u will be on ur way faster than u
realize. But be safe,safe,safe....one accident will greatly increase the
cost of the tower. Also, suggest u do it it the morning when everyone is
freshest... gud luck 73 Brad / KZ5Q
73 kz5qdx@ns.usanetlink.net
DOUGLAS "BRAD" BRADFORD
KZ5Q DENHAM SPRINGS,LA
Wayne,
I have to agree with most/all of the comments by AA8U.
Used towers are a bit of a problem unless you are certain
it is in good shape and you know that is installed correctly.
I have done quite a bit of tower work and even on towers
that I have put up or been up on before - I look the
system over - esp if it has been awhile since I have seen
the tower.
Also - inexperianced tower help is DANGEROUS. If the people
on the ground and the one on the tower don't know what is
going on it can be very bad. Not everyone can work
in the air with ease. There are days when for whatever reason
I just don't want to work on a tower ( and I am used to doing
this work and do it pretty well) - when I feel that way
I don't climb until I feel good about everything.
Be very careful if you decide to help take this tower down
and by all means speak up if you feel that something is
not right or looks dangerous.
Also remeber that there is no way of knowing if the last 20-30 feet
of unguyed tower will support a man and people pulling on it - always
use temporary guys.
Be safe.
--
George Fremin III
Austin, Texas C.K.U. "You don't need an antenna that big to work 40 meters."
WB5VZL -Local ham upon seeing the N5AU 40m yagi-
512/416-0140
geoiii@bga.com
From: K8DO@aol.com
Subject: Re: 25g Disassembly
Hi...
Sounds like you have the basics covered... two things, from experience, that
I have found make it go so smoothly you won't believe it...
1. Use dacron or polypropylene rope guys -not nylon- right below the
disassembly point...you will need 2 sets, so that you can leave the (new) top
section guyed while you re-set the 2nd set of guy ropes one section down...
2. Make 2 lever assemblys for forcing the sections to separate...one for
each side so the 2 operators can "walk" the top section up off the
lower...look in the mags.. there is an ad there for such a device, and from
the picture you can make 2 of them out of 2 layers of 1/2" plywood for the
base, and a trimmed down 2x4 for the arm...
Denny
From: TDILLAHUNTY <tdillahunty-cos2@kaman.com>
Subject: Tower Dismantling
Wayne...
I saw your note on the reflector. I would be negligent in not sending you a
short note.
I was taught climbing practices by an old timer that spent years installing
power lines thru west virginia. (Dan W8ZCQ). At age 14, I had the physical
abilities but lacked the mental focus and caution necessary to avoid the risks.
Dan knew I would be installing my own tower and took it upon himself to teach
me what I needed to learn. I have no doubt his mentoring probably saved my
life on many occassions.
I calculated that from the age of 14 until age 22, I climbed over 18 miles of
vertical tower. The money I earned installing towers, changing lite bulbs on
broadcast towers, mounting HF antennas and painting put me thru college and
supported my hobbies. I was definitely motivated to do the work, but in
hindsight, the risks I took never justified the gain.
Towards the end of my climbing days I refused to climb a tower for an amateur
unless I had previously installed it. I picked the crew, planned the work,
checked all the equipment, made and enforced the rules, and in general called
the shots. Some of the hams had difficulty dealing with the "conditions" I
required (especially since I was a long haired college student of the 70's),
but no one ever got hurt, and none of the towers I installed ever came down in
a wind storm.
Doing the work above 40 ft requires special skills and team work. You need to
plan you moves, have the right tools, a calm wind, and no deadline to finish.
My experience is that two people that know what they are doing is far safer
than 4 helpers and one experienced climber. Extra people get in the way and
add risk. It's important to be able to easily communicate with someone on the
ground who understands the task. Your life in the air can depend on this
person. Eliminate any distractions on the ground, i.e. kids, animals,
concerned spouse, rubber neckers etc.
Some of the commercial installations I saw were horrible. No maintenance,
compressed tubing where sections joined, rusted bolts, frayed guys wires etc.
I refused to work on them. You can expect to find tower sections "fused
together" after years of weathering. QST has ads for a tool called "tower
jack" which makes it relatively easy to separate sections in the air. I wish
they had them 20 years ago. I used a small car jack. You have to be carefull
with the tension on the load line as tower sections start to separate. I've
seen them "spring" in the air at the last second.
I'm now 44 and would only consider working on my own tower. The best advice I
would give anyone is to find an experienced tower guy, (one who has the
patience to teach how its done) and a small ground crew (1-2 people) that
understand the process.
You can never be too cautious or in a hurry. The work requires that you are in
good physical shape, but also the understanding that you should not have to
"muscle" anything. Remain focused at all times.
Good Luck!
73 Terry KU7U "It's not the fall that kills, it's hitting the ground"
From: w7ni@teleport.com (Stan Griffiths)
Subject: Re: 25g Disassembly
You have gotten some pretty good advice already and all I can do is second
most of it.
1. Don't trust the guying system. Use lots of ropes as temporary guys.
2. When you get down to the bottom where the last set of guys has to be
dropped, make sure the tower is guyed with rope below that point. Don't
assume the base can hold up even two sections of tower without guys. Guy
the bottom section with ropes as you remove the section just above it.
3. To separate stuck sections, I use a modified car scissors jack with some
pieces of angle steel welded on the top and bottom of it. I slip this jack
between sections and crank away. When there is pressure applied to separate
two sections, I grab the top section and yank it from side to side. Then I
crank the jack some more, etc. etc.
4. To make sure I don't drop the jack on someone below, I have a quick
disconnect safety chain on it and I clip it to the tower section I am
standing on.
Good luck. In general, I find it worth while to salvage used Rohn 25. If
it is already on the ground, used 25 is worth about $40 per section in good
shape. I wouldn't pay more than $20 per section if I have to take it down.
If it is rusty or otherwise damaged, I might take it down, but I would not
pay anything for it.
Stan w7ni@teleport.com
From: "James K. George Jr." <n3bb@bga.com>
Subject: Re: 25g Disassembly
Another good idea is to use a small "tower jack" to break apart the old
sctions if they didn't use grease when they were assembled. You are
welcome to borrow the tower jack, gin pole and rope from me if you wish.
73, Jim George
N3BB
From: W1km@aol.com
Subject: Re: 25g Disassembly
I suggest you be prepared for sections that don't want to come apart.
I use a small hydraulic jack and some 2x4's (or 2X6's) to help persuade
the sections apart. There was an article in NCJ a few issues back about
some commercial gizmo that does the same thing, but the jack does
fine.
Good luck and take your time!
73,
Greg W1KM
From: "Rich L. Boyd" <rlboyd@CapAccess.org>
Subject: Taking down Rohn 25
A local professional told us last year of a Rohn 25 that was guyed and
house bracketed. At ground level it had completedly rusted through on
all three legs, so that there was nothing supporting it at ground level
-- the building bracket was doing all the supporting, plus some guy
wires. The part between the bracket and the ground (except for a couple
inches of gap) was just hanging there!
Additionally, the tower was in an alleyway with power lines nearby in a
couple directions. Definitely a job for competent professionals with a
crane truck. Be careful.
Rich Boyd KE3Q
From: Ai7b@teleport.com
Subject: Re: 25g Disassembly
inspect the twr installation carefully b4 attempting tare down.
make sure guys are safe...ie not rusted out etc. have temporary
guys (ropes) available.....3 sections of used r25 is all i wud
climb w/o guys....also have a small bottle jack and a couple of
short 2x4's handy so you can jack sticky sections apart....also ]
wd-40 and liquid wrench can be useful....gl de bravo
>From John Brosnahan <broz@csn.net> Tue Mar 26 14:55:25 1996
From: John Brosnahan <broz@csn.net> (John Brosnahan)
Subject: to weld, or not to weld
Message-ID: <199603261455.HAA00437@lynx.csn.net>
Pete,
I am biased towards welding about everything since I
own gas, arc, and TIG welding equipment and I also
live in WELD county, but I really recommend that you
NOT weld rebar. In addition to the discussion in
April 96 QST Technical Correspondence (p. 79) I think it
may weaken the rebar if you don't know what you are
doing. If you buy the rebar ties of the right length
(the wires with loops on both ends) and have the tieing tool
(only a few bucks) you can meet the specs and save money
as well as time over the welding process.
Go watch how they build an interstate bridge and you'll see
lots of ties. Must be a reason--it is either better or cheaper
or both--but I bet it will withstand more than any ham tower
will ever need to withstand.
73 John W0UN
John Brosnahan
La Salle Research Corp 24115 WCR 40 La Salle, CO 80645 USA
voice 970-284-6602 fax 970-284-0979 email broz@csn.net
>From Richard Riley #7122" <RRILEY%ESA.bitnet@listserv.gmd.de Tue Mar 26
>21:05:22 1996
From: Richard Riley #7122" <RRILEY%ESA.bitnet@listserv.gmd.de (Richard Riley
#7122)
Subject: France Weekly - TM1C goes Qrp - Power - Brand New Mult!
WPX and Cheap Tubes:
TM1C will be active again this weekend....but without the help of W4QRO!
No, seriously...John (ON4UN) has been trying to build us a driver...hence
his recent search for cheap 4CX1000s. Unfortunately John's been so busy
replying to flames on the reflector that the driver is far from finished!
So...TM1C will go Qrp this weekend!
Look for our signal and please take note of any difference you see with
the BIG Italian boys...TKs...and EAs.
Observations appreciated! (W2UP)
See you on 80m John!
ARRL DX and Power:
One thing that makes me and I'm sure many others giggle is the Power Used
exchanges given by Europeans during the ARRL DX contest.
French law permits 500 watts INPUT!
ANYBODY in France who is entering the contest seriously in the HP category
is running over 1KW!(out) usually from commercially made amps such as Alphas
or Ameritrons...
check the reports from TM1C, TM2Y, TM5G, TM5X etc...they all read "K".
Is this a case of everybody's doing it but nobody's telling!?
- a fear that the "80m Policeman" may turn you in?
One thing is sure...the 80m Policeman won't turn you in 'cuz he's running
a KW too!
Brand New Mult available this weekend:
OK guys THIS IS TOP SECRET...ok...so keep this one under your hats for the time
being....
This weekend a brand spanking new mult may hit the bands.
A former member of the "Too Much 2 Young" clan has escaped for the weekend and
has set up camp on international territory..claiming diplomatic immunity.
Recent reports indicate that Amateur Radio activity is planned on all bands
(WARC inc) in various modes as of Friday 30/3/96.
Who?
Where?
Call?
All these questions will be answered tomorrow when the escapee contacts our
middle man!
73s!
and see y'all from tm1c!
Richard
G0JFX/F5VCO
...................................
email: rriley%esa.bitnet@vm.gmd.de
packet: G0JFX@F6KBF
|