Hi Dean,
Then I guess by your logic and perspective...why have any catagories at
all?..
To change focus...in contesting to make thing easier (as I see where this
is going)...
Lets have the contest sponsors just eliminate ALL catagories and just have
it..whoever has the most rigs with the most ops...most antennas in the best
mult. country on the highest hill...take the ribbon. Make it a worldwide
winner takes all single catagory.
Dean, I think you are over analyzing this...and to look at the classic
category that CQ has created seems to convey that "they" believe there is an
imbalance these days with SO2R and SO1R...as I have said...times have
changed...Its a start and with luck the ARRL will follow suit.
I do not see a flood of the top SO2R guys scrambling to get into the top
spot in the classic cat. after all the time and effort spent to become tops
in the field of SO2R. And if that happened?..that would be great ...as it
would give guys (and gals) more incentive and to have something to go after.
And like I said...now..the only goal SO1R ops have to go after is to be the
bottom of the top. Of course they could choose to start SO2R and start at
the bottom and try and get to the skill level and be competitive enough to
be in the same league with the other more experienced 2R ops....
AND..I would be willing to bet that some of the SO2R guys would have a
hard time competing with some top ops in the 1R catagories...But I guess we
wont know until what you have predicted... happens.
This is the wrong forum to talk about this I guess...its a bit lopsided ;o)
Its been a decent and adult discussion other than 1 reply at the start of
it that seemed bent on starting something....(there's always one in the
crowd)
Thanks guys...I'll keep stumping for this in different ways and appreciate
the bandwidth...And to the guys that replied direct to me in support of the
idea of a separate cat. I will be in touch again soonly.
Oh...and because this IS a WriteLog forum...I have been using WriteLog
since I stopped using TR in DOS in the 90s..and have had questions in the past
but have usually had them answered by lurking and/or searching the
archives.
73,
Mike W2GR
PS:..I never did get a reply as to WHY NOT?..what would it hurt?
PPS: Anyone have a spare room for Dayton?...
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------
In a message dated 1/9/2015 4:17:00 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
dmsthill@gmail.com writes:
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Dean St. Hill <dmsthill@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, Jan 9, 2015 at 1:03 AM
Subject: Re: [WriteLog] SO2R vs SO1R
To: john@kk9a.com
Here's the thing. If there is a SO1R category - in the first year a couple
of the lesser lights in SO2R (people like myself) will probably enter it
anyway - just to maybe set a par score for their state or country. Because
of the generally better "stuff" at the SO2R-types - better antennas,
switching gear etc etc AND generally their relatively high skill level, and
their competitive nature they'll probably win or get close to winning.
Well when one of the (former) SO2R lesser lights becomes a world number one
in this new SO1R category, some of the more competitive SO2R's will look at
the scores and figure - "I could do that with one hand tied behind my back
and one eye closed" - Soooo these SO2R middle lights will give it a shot in
year two. Afterall who doesn't like to set an all-time world record. That's
more of a rush to a contester than say an ATNO for a dxer!!
And by year three even the firmly died-in-the-wool SO2R's will be looking
at the new all time records and thinking - I could beat those scores with
both eyes closed, one hand tied behind my back and 1/2 my antenna farm
(just say the top 5 in the 5 over 5 over 5 stacks)
Well by year four all of a sudden the par score for this new SO1R category
will be beyond the reach of the "modest" contester who it was created
for... and like good hams we'll analyse the situation and conclude we need
a new category -after all 99% of contesters who enter will never have a
shot at winning this new SO1R category because it's being dominated by
these guys with bigger abtennas, mose space for RX antennas etc. etc. etc.
So we'll create the SO1R - tribander - wires - no-stacks - no-auto-amps -
no auto-switching - no-auto-tuner category. Guess what it'll still be a new
category - and that cycle will start all over again.
The category is simply part of the strategy that a competitive operator
chooses to maximise his winning potential based on his view of his
location, antennas, predicted propagation, operator skill and perception of
the competition. A single op doesn't sit back and think of himself as an
SO2R - he got to that point because of his competitive nature and his
DESIRE TO WIN. In fact he's always looking for ways to squeeze more points
out of the contest - If I change out the 5 over 5 over 5 to a 7-7-7-7 stack
could I open the band earlier - Only have room for two beverages - could I
invest in some other RX antennas to improve my mults from other parts of
the world - Should I be looking to change rigs to that... And if he lives
on a small city lot or an apartment somewhere in Urbanaria he's always
figuring out where should I go - what spot on planet earth will give me the
global advantage.
Just my perspective.
Dean - 8P6SH / 8P2K in contests (heck some of us even get shorter calls for
contests)
*Dean St.Hill*
*Barbados.JustAskLocals.com <http://Barbados.JustAskLocals.com>*
*It's A Big World. Travel Smarter <http://barbados.justasklocals.com/>*
*17 Ocean City*
*St.Philip*
*Barbados*
*246-825-2039 <246-825-2039>*
*246-416-5277 <246-416-5277>*
*dmsthill@gmail.com <dmsthill@gmail.com>*
On Thu, Jan 8, 2015 at 11:25 PM, <john@kk9a.com> wrote:
> To some degree there already is a SO1R category in one major contest.
CQWW
> Classic allows only one transceiver. You can also operate single band
and
> be very competitive with one radio in any contest. I have a number of
> single band plaques and records, most done with a single radio.
>
>
>
> To get the full benefit of SO2R you have to be almost super human. Watch
> how easy N6MJ makes it look
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vqkw05ClqQ4>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vqkw05ClqQ4 . Even with only one radio
> many
> of the winning operators would be tough to beat. Another way to improve
> your score is by improving your antennas and location.
>
>
>
> Since you asked I will list a couple of my SO1R highlights. In the 2011
> CQWW
> Phone Contest, I was in Aruba with my XYL celebrating our anniversary so
> this was not a super serious operation. Also the DSL had a very poor
> connection. Using the callsign P40A, I operated SOAB (A) and had the
> world
> high score and came very close to breaking the all time record. (Since
this
> is the Writelog list, I should mention that I used Writelog). In 1999 I
won
> the low power category in the ARRL DX Phone contest using the callsign
VP5J
> and I set a new record with just one radio. In 2004, K9PG went to WP3R
and
> broke my record. also using one radio.
>
>
>
> W2GD/P40W is an excellent operator who has won many contests and he
always
> uses a single transceiver. He does an amazing job of finding multipliers
> and
> band openings while maintaining high QSO rates.
>
>
>
> I plan to operate SO1R in the next ARRL DX phone contest as WP2AA.
>
>
>
> 73,
>
> John KK9A - W4AAA
>
>
>
>
>
> From: W2GR@aol.com [mailto:W2GR@aol.com]
> Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2015 5:48 PM
> To: john@kk9a.com; WriteLog@CONTESTING.COM
> Subject: SO2R vs SO1R
>
>
>
> Hi John,
>
>
>
> I am just curious ...in what contest ..in what category ...and year have
> you
> won in the SO cat where SO2R contestants were operating?...?...This is
not
> to get into any pissing match...but just for someone who would like to
> know.
> That would be very respectable...(not that I don't respect your operating
> abilities now)
>
>
>
> And guys like Don and Ed etc...their feats in operating I will probably
> never get to that level as long as I live......definitely guys to look up
> to
> in the RTTY contesting world..among others...as I have...However..
>
>
>
> In the single op category in the contests...I just wonder...if there were
> NOT a significant and winning advantage, why bother with the
> expense...learning and aggravation of going to SO2R?...
>
>
>
> I can answer that for you...to be competitive with the other guys that
have
> gone that route. The advantage...for the win....to be the best ...and
that
> is outstanding!...that makes the new guys running SO2R wanna be like the
> others above and strive to better their operating skill etc. THATS A GOOD
> THING! COMPETE WITH YOUR PEERS!
>
>
>
> Shouldn't the ops that choose not to run SO2R have the same opportunity
> regardless of their operational situation?..Be it a beam vs
dipole...stacks
> vs vert. ...East coast vs West etc....its still 1 rig and 1 antenna at a
> time. A boy and his radio.
>
>
>
> Seems to me...If there were a separate category for SO2R...maybe the SO1R
> guys would start wanting to improve themselves..improve their station and
> get better at operating in their category to get to the level of the ops
at
> the top...and spend more time in the chair?..that would be a good thing
for
> everyone...would it not?...that would be a goal to shoot for anyway...
>
>
>
> What are the SO1R goals now competing with SO2R?...to be 30th?...
>
>
>
> Probably 99% of the ops entered in the single op catagories in all the
> contests are SO1R....
>
>
>
> So my question to the guys that think there should NOT be a separate
> catagory...
>
>
>
> WHY NOT?..Why should there NOT be a separation? WHY NOT?
>
>
>
> Mike W2GR
>
> --------------------
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> In a message dated 1/8/2015 1:54:01 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> john@kk9a.com writes:
>
> Ed does a great job running multiple radios, especially on RTTY. It is
> definitely not easy, especially if you are operating from a high rate
> area. Imagine working 200-300+ stations per hour on SSB on one radio
> while looking for mults on another. There are operators that do this very
> well. Anyone can set up two radios but learning to use both and maintain
> this energy and motivation during the contest is the challenge. I see no
> reason for a separate category. You should never under estimate what can
> be done with a single radio. Many people have won using SO1R, including
> myself. As Ed said, SO2R on RTTY is easier. You do not have to mentally
> copy anything and the exchanges are often ridiculously long which give
you
> a lot of free time. The difficult part for me when running RTTY on two
> bands is that you cannot legally transmit on both at the same time (as
> single op) and sometimes QSOs do not sync well. Both may require my
> response at the same time and sometimes I have to wait longer than I care
> for before I can hit the appropriate F key for one of the QSOs.
>
> John KK9A / W4AAA
>
>
>
> To: <W2GR@aol.com>, <WriteLog@CONTESTING.COM>
> Subject: Re: [WriteLog] P49X Prefill file & Message SO2R vs SO1R
> From: "Ed Muns" <ed@w0yk.com>
> Reply-to: ed@w0yk.com
> Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2015 06:54:28 -0800
>
> How many of the "SO2R guys" who "push you down in the standings" are
> operating from a "small city lot . 1 trapped beam, 1 homebrew short 160m
> vert. and a very low 80m inv. V"? Most SO2R operators have already
created
> significant advantages with their station location and antennas, etc.
How
> many SO2R operators out score you from identical stations in identical
> locations? That will tell you how severely tilted the playing field is
due
> to SO2R.
>
>
>
> Of course, a skilled SO2R operator will likely outscore a skilled SO1R
> operator in identical locations with identical propagation and identical
> antennas. But the extent of this advantage is smaller than the
advantages
> gained from all the other qualifiers in that sentence. Most SO2R
operators
> have already gained significant advantage by optimizing other aspects of
> their station and location.
>
>
>
> By the way, for anyone wanting to improve their SO2R skills, spend plenty
> of
> time in RTTY contests. SO2R is much easier because the operator is freed
> from copying and can therefore apply his attention to perfecting all the
> other skills needed to effectively manage two or more QSO streams on
> different bands. The potential score advantage of SO2R in RTTY is also
> much
> higher than in CW or SSB, but the SO2R skills developed in RTTY are
mostly
> applicable to the other modes. My CW SO2R skills improved much faster
once
> I started doing RTTY contesting.
>
>
>
> Also, SO2R skills can be developed in any SO1R station that has a radio
> with
> a reasonable second receiver. This is so-called SO2V. It is even more
> challenging than SO2R because you can not listen to another frequency on
> the
> same band (usually) while transmitting.
>
>
>
> Finally, don't underestimate the skill it takes to operate SO2R such that
> it
> actually is an advantage. My scores were lower due to SO2R for many,
many
> contests. To the extent that SO2R is an advantage for me today it is
> because I invested thousands of hours struggling to learn it.
>
>
>
> Ed W0YK
>
>
>
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>
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