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Re: [VHFcontesting] [NEWSVHF] WB2VVV 144 MHz Spring Sprint

To: David Olean <k1whs@metrocast.net>
Subject: Re: [VHFcontesting] [NEWSVHF] WB2VVV 144 MHz Spring Sprint
From: Shawn Tayler <n7lq@xmtservices.net>
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2025 19:38:25 -0700
List-post: <mailto:vhfcontesting@contesting.com>
Hello Dave et al,

I will echo Dave’s comments re. FT8. I’m to the point of pulling down my 6/2M 
quad. Spent a bit of time listening around 50.125 and hearing nothing while 
50.313 is alight with FT8, watching DX Maps. I do admit to not having even 
tried to setup a digital station as it holds little interest for me. I just 
enjoy listening on SSB/CW, seems that digital takes all the fun out of it, at 
least for me. My $0.02. 


Shawn
N7LQ

> On Apr 16, 2025, at 12:34, David Olean <k1whs@metrocast.net> wrote:
> 
> Hi Ron,
> 
> That is a very interesting perspective on analog vs. digital modes.  I agree 
> that operator skill is a major driver of what we are seeing on the ham bands 
> these days. From my perspective, FT-8 does nothing for me other than 
> convenience. It allows me to make contacts while I am also drilling holes in 
> a chassis, or machining metal on a lathe.  I sure can't do that while 
> operating CW.   In using FT8 for a few years on VHF, I am still waiting to 
> make a contact that I could not do via CW.  I think my ears are trained to 
> dig CW signals out of the noise after years of CW EME.
> 
> I also remember years ago in the 1960's, when I did not know CW very well and 
> was exclusively an AM or SSB op on VHF. I would listen to CW tapes of meteor 
> scatter QSOs made by K2RTH. (K2R6) Bruce would chug along at 35 wpm and copy 
> short bursts on MS and pick out calls or RS2 etc. I heard just gibberish. 
> That experience led me to learn to be a better CW op. I was never good at 35 
> wpm. I struggle at 25 wpm, but I sure got good at picking weak signals out of 
> the noise. It's all about rhythm. Each grid square or RR 73 has its own 
> cadence and it is hard to describe to people without that skill.  If I did 
> not know the code and have some experience with it, I would be on FT8 100% of 
> the time to pick off DX.   The difference between AM and SSB was in the 
> neighborhood of ten dB. CW vs SSB is about another ten dB maybe.  So FT8 is 
> another world when you compare it to what SSB can do. You get another ten dB 
> just on your end of the path.
> 
> Q65 is a different beast and it really provides a huge improvement over CW no 
> matter how good your "ears" are. It is a game changer and adds another ten dB 
> to the equation.  So also is FT8  a game changer for the less skilled ops 
> with no CW background.   Also consider that old hams are losing their 
> hearing.It happens to almost all of us at some point. In that case FT8 is a 
> great way to continue with the hobby.  There is no denying that!
> 
> I would agree that the instant gratification contingent will gravitate to FT8 
> and stay there. No tuning is needed. No CW ability is needed. You do not need 
> to copy through noise, and you can operate a milling machine or build a 
> Revell plastic muscle car while you make contacts.  I love the feature of the 
> digital modes in that I can go out of the ham shack on the hill, water a pine 
> tree, and then skoot back to the chair with no one the wiser. That is 
> convenience.
> 
> I just love hearing signals and will never tire of the sound of DX. This past 
> Monday, I marveled at how watery N2NT sounded coming in on my omni antenna 
> from almost 300 miles away.  The flutter and fading is what floats my boat, 
> and I will not give that up. I just am sad when people take the easy way out 
> and forego SSB and CW for the convenience of FT8. It is what it is, but I 
> don't like it. Please check the calling frequencies for SSB or CW every once 
> in awhile.  You might be surprised and hear someone!
> 
> 73
> 
> Dave K1WHS
> 
> 
>> On 4/15/2025 6:06 PM, Ron Klimas WZ1V wrote:
>> I guess that's a matter of perspective.
>> I looked back at all my contest logs since the Analog Category started.
>> They revealed that SSB-CW activity has remained pretty much the same
>> now as it was 3 or 4 years ago. Activity is dependent on band conditions
>> more than any other factor. I would also go as far to say that one's
>> location, station capability, operator skill and patience are much
>> bigger determining factors than just saying the contest rules are to blame.
>> Everyone's using those same rules so it's a level playing field.
>> What's really happening IMO is there are operators that just don't
> 
>> want to struggle straining to hear weak signals in the noise for hours.
>> They prefer to stay on FT8 and let the computer pull out the signal.
>> By the same token, when band conditions are poor, more people
>> move to FT8 sooner because their analog CQ's are going unanswered.
>> Because the software can decode weaker signals in the noise than
>> most humans can perceive, the weakest FT8 CQ's get answered.
>> Why walk 3 miles to the srore in the rain when you can take yoir car there ?
>> Then again, if it's a sunny day it might be nice to go for a walk.
>> Just my 2 cents, I've done both many times.
>> 
>> 73 Ron WZ1V
>> 
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: CHRIS FAGAS via NEWSVHF <newsvhf@mailman.qth.net>
>> To:
>> Cc: vhfcontesting@contesting.com, newsvhf@mailman.qth.net
>> Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2025 17:00:12 -0400
>> Subject: [NEWSVHF] WB2VVV 144 MHz Spring Sprint
>> 
>>>   144 MHz Spring Sprint - 2025
>>> 
>>> Call: WB2VVV
>>> Operator(s): WB2VVV
>>> Station: WB2VVV
>>> 
>>> Class: Single Op LP
>>> QTH: FN41
>>> Operating Time (hrs): 1.1
>>> 
>>> Summary:
>>> Total:  QSOs = 21  Mults = 10  Total Score = 210
>>> 
>>> Club: North East Weak Signal Group
>>> 
>>> Comments:
>>> 
>>> Operated ANALOG ONLY with LOW POWER for a little over an hour from my Rhode
>>> Island FN41cr QTH. Made 21 QSOs and worked 10 different Grids.
>>> 
>>> I really like the way CQ has split their VHF contest into 2 dates, one for
>>> ANALOG and one for DIGITAL, and I look forward to operating on the ANALOG 
>>> date -
>>> when everyone operating will be operating ANALOG. OTOH, ARRL has created an
>>> ANALOG ONLY category within its three VHF contests, but this does not boost
>>> ANALOG activity one bit. Instead we are watching the ANALOG activity drop 
>>> every
>>> contest. Presumably DIGITAL activity is increasing, but I wouldn't know as 
>>> I have
>>> no interest in DIGITAL modes.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Posted using 3830 Score Submittal Forms at: http://www.3830scores.com/
>>> ______________________________________________________________
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>>> 
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