Sorry, I can't resist...
The last time I checked, contesting involved talking to as many
different hams on as many different bands as you could. Contesting is
not about talking to the same people over and over again while standing
a few feet away from each other. That activity is not to be confused
with real contest practices or operation.
Grid circling may be legal, but it does not meet the spirit of
contesting or of Ham radio in any way. If you are not trying to work
every station that you hear, from near and as far away as possible, than
you are missing the boat. Grid Circling is simply manipulating the
system to guarantee a huge score by manufacturing repetitive contacts
within a small group of people. It's kind of like kissing your sister.
You can do it, but it won't be any fun.
Of course, here in Arizona we never (OK, rarely) see rovers of any kind
anyway. Sigh...plaques are highly over rated anyway...I do it for the
beer!
73
Pete
WA7JTM
DM46 in June Contest this year
-----Original Message-----
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Subject: VHFcontesting Digest, Vol 77, Issue 46
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: an open letter to the ARRL (Zack Widup)
2. Re: The PSC and the VUAC (Mike (KA5CVH) Urich)
3. Re: an open letter to the ARRL (Mike (KA5CVH) Urich)
4. Re: an open letter to the ARRL (Zack Widup)
5. Re: Changes to ARRL VHF Contest Rules (Nate Duehr)
6. Re: Changes to ARRL VHF Contest Rules (Mike (KA5CVH) Urich)
7. Re: Changes to ARRL VHF Contest Rules (Steve Clifford)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 13:04:04 -0500
From: Zack Widup <w9sz.zack@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [VHFcontesting] an open letter to the ARRL
To: VHF Contesting Reflector <vhfcontesting@contesting.com>
Message-ID:
<31c63d050905271104q11efd3f1s52ed40b05a9a57c7@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
I really never know what to say about all this. I've only been a Rover a
few times, once in the CQ-VHF contest, once for fun in ARRL June VHF and
in the 10 GHz contest. I think I was a Rover a few years ago when 6
meters was phenomenal in both the June and July contests and I figured I
wasn't going to make many higher-band QSO's anyway, so I just took 6 and
2 meters in the June contest.
But it's basically your conscience versus theirs. I know that's no
consolation when you lose to someone whose conscience is telling them
something different than yours does, but you know what your station can
do and what you've done to make your QSO's in a contest. I really
wouldn't know how to go about explaining my views to someone who has
their own explanations for grid circling so firmly planted in their
minds. Maybe it's not possible.
I've been on the VHF Distance Scoring discussion group (and not
contributing as much to the discussion as I'd hoped to). But one point
is that a distance-based scoring in a contest could negate the value of
grid circling. The points value of 50 QSO's over a distance of one mile
could be completely overwhelmed by one QSO at 500 miles.
Someone would still probably complain, though, about unfair advantages
due to outstanding tropo openings like I had in last year's August UHF
contest.
But in this case it was just luck - I happened to be in the right place
at the right time. I've missed out on others and said to myself "Oh well
...
one of these days." Then one of those days happened. :-)
73, Zack W9SZ
On Wed, May 27, 2009 at 12:37 PM, frank bechdoldt <k3uhf@hotmail.com>
wrote:
>
> To the ARRL PSC and Ethics Committees.
>
> My name is Frank Bechdoldt, my call is K3UHF, I have been a
> ham for 25 years when I got my ticket at the age of 13. I was active
> in Mars while aboard the USS Nimitz, and a few various ARRL clubs over
the years.
> However as life goes, I lost interest in other than 2 meter FM
> sometime around 1992 but re-discovered interest in ham radio in 2002.
>
> When I decided to get back in and I realized I could get an
> Yaesu FT 847 that did a lot things like vhf sideband for the same
> price as an HF radio 10 years before. So I purchased an 847 and got on
> the air on vhf SSB with a hidden antenna and a tuner. I accidentally
> ran into a vhf contest and worked over 100 people on 6, 2 and 432 with
> a 100 foot hidden long wire. (I had CC&R?s). I was hooked.
>
> I then decided to make a vhf rover station to go out in the
> Jan
> 2003 contest. I faithfully roved every vhf plus and even changed my
call
> sign to reflect my enthusiasm for the high bands. After building my
> station up to 6 bands in 2004 I then by chance I ran into a group of
> what we call ?grid circlers? working together as a team of three cars
> with fm handhelds on all the bands up to 1.2 GHz and Ramsey laser
kits.
>
> The group was a bit standoffish as I watched as they
> shuffled their cars around the grid square intersection working only
> each other for points. It was a sight to see as they all worked each
> other from about 500 feet apart. I didn?t think much of it and I
moved on.
>
> A few months later I realized that this group what was only
> equipped with handhelds beat my station by a 10 to one margin. You
> can see my rig under my call on qrz.com. I then re-doubled my efforts
> added a 7th band and posted a score twice as big the next year.
> However when I opened up my QST I seen that a group of grid circlers
> in California did the same thing as the group I witnessed near
> Seattle, but refined it to a level and score that it made it
> impossible for a station who is trying to work everyone to compete.
> IE my 70000 pt score working 600 QSO?s with 250 unique stations could
> not compete with a group of three people working only themselves at
> grid corners to generate 800-900 QSO?s with only two other unique
stations.
>
> For your understanding here is the online dictionary
> definition of Grid Circling in your contests.
>
> Grid circling
> Grid circling is a highly-coordinated operation of two or more rover
> stations. Two or more rover stations arrive at an area near the
> intersection of four Maidenhead grid locators, and "circle" through
> the possible combinations of grid locators, making contacts in each
> combination. The rover stations then drive to the next intersection of
> grid locators on their planned route and repeat the process. Stations
> participating in grid circling do not need to be capable of
> communicating over distances longer than a few miles. Even without
> making contact with any other stations in the contest, grid circling
> stations can generate large scores just by contacting the other
stations in their small, tightly-coordinated group.
>
> Some object to the activity because it does not contribute to the
> contest at large; the stations in the grid circling effort generally
> do not contact many other stations in the contest. Others object to
> the unfairness of these stations competing in the same category as
> other rover stations that do not grid circle, and who are at a
> perceived scoring disadvantage. Grid circlers themselves often argue
> that the technical and operational challenges of such an operation
> represent significant achievement, and the activity, if discouraged,
> is not explicitly prohibited. Some suggest that grid circling should
> be allowed, but such teams of station should be ranked in a separate
category from other rovers.
>
> Several rule modificatins have been tried to address this
issue.
> Rule changes have came out without much open discussion in the
> community as a whole and resulted in even greater contoversy. I would
> suggest that there be open hearings when you propose a rule change so
> people can point out potential issues before said rules are in place.
>
> The issue I bring to bith the PSC and Ethic committees is
> the ethical implications of the current VHF rules. The VHF rulese
> clearly encourages everyone to work as many people as possible but
> there are no teeth to these rules. Several winners of all three rover
> catagories are now from a single group of stations working as a team
> with a very low percentage of QSOs with parties outside of their team
as compared to their competitors.
>
> The failure here is the reluctance of the ARRL to put a
> solid firewall between the two different contesting activities. That
> is pratice of working your team mates for points as compared to trying
> to work as many stations as possible for points.
>
> The failed attemt to curb this was the unlimited rover with
> the intent for team activites to remain there. However the group in
> California put a teram together of 6-8 stations all owned by one man
> who worked each other in 1000 foot long QSOs in all three catagories
> to win all three catagories nationally. I ask the ethics committee is
> this ethically correct and the will of the ARRL?
>
> If so, the rule encouraging people to work as many stations
> as possible should be stricken and replaced with generate as many QSOs
> as possible.
>
> The VUAC recomemned a lower maximum number of Rover to
> rover QSOs and a max perecntage of rover to Rover QSO?s in a log for
> non unlimited rovers. This was passed over by the PSC without giving a
reason for doing
> so. Now a single man can send out 10 stations who can work each
other
> station up to 100 times on gear all owned by one man to put up a
> monster score with 900 gaurenteed QSO?s and the grids/ multipliers to
go with them.
> Is this what you guys think is ethically correct.
>
>
>
> Another flaw in the rules is the use of check logs. This
> guy who may have 10- 10 band stations could send out 4 limiteds, 5
> traditional rovers and one unlimited. The 4 limiteds could work the
> unlimited and traional guys on the higher bands and enter them as
> check logs while the unlimited and traditional applies tehm to the
> their score. Furthermore the tradional rovers could check log the
> lower point valued contacts with the limited rovers while applying the
> higher valued contacts to their logs until they reach the 100 per
> other rover match. Also 9 out of 10 stations would still inflate their
clubs score here.
>
> A station should not be allowed to make contacts on bands
> that are not part of their total contest log. IE no hy-brid
> situations where half of your QSO?s are not part of the official log.
> His leads to other forms of ethically questionable behavior. For
instance, in my last contest
> I only made 8- 1.2 ghz contacts, and 1- 902 mhz contact if I would
of
> check logged those contacts and dropped to the limited class I would
> of doubled the national winner?s score. However if you leave your
> driveway with 6 bands you should be a 6 band station period. I ask
> you to fix that ASAP.
>
> Check logs should also be 100 percent check logs, no cherry
> picking contacts. A rover should have to apply the first 100 contacts
> in his log with another individual rover as the contacts and not
cherrie pick them.
> A station entering a contest log should not be allowed to enter a
> check log and the rover club distance radius should be dropped to
avoid confusion.
>
> I believe the current practices by Wayne Overbeck are an
> ethical violation of what your contest is encouraging. I would like
> it formally investigated.
>
> I would also like to see the ARRL to publish all logs
entered.
> As a dues paying member I have the right to see the info generated to
> create the awards I pay for as a member.
>
> Finally the latest rule change as of yesterday is couter
> productive to grow roving. I am dropping down to 4 bands because the
> practice of grid circling is somewhat contained there. Someone who
> wants to graduate from limited to traditional would have to gather
> together 9 other 10 band stations as well as build his own and
> cordinate short distance QSOs across easily acessable flat terrain to
compete with the current winners.
> That?s quite a jump from owning a icom 706 and a 222 transverter.
>
>
>
> Sincerely
>
> Frank Bechdoldt
>
> K3uhf
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync.
> http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_BR_life_in_synch_052009
> _______________________________________________
> VHFcontesting mailing list
> VHFcontesting@contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/vhfcontesting
>
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 13:08:20 -0500
From: "Mike (KA5CVH) Urich" <ka5cvh@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [VHFcontesting] The PSC and the VUAC
To: Marshall Williams <k5qe@sabinenet.com>
Cc: "Rogers, Ron" <RR124640@ncr.com>, "vhfcontesting@contesting.com"
<vhfcontesting@contesting.com>
Message-ID:
<15b2c6c70905271108h12b0d867i246eafd4d98d3795@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
On Wed, May 27, 2009 at 1:58 PM, Marshall Williams <k5qe@sabinenet.com>
wrote:
> The accomplishments of
> the VHFers are not exactly trivial.
Mike wrote
Two friends, John, AB5SS and Dan, W5DF, both contend that anyone can buy
a plug and play radio, throw some wire in the air between some trees and
with a general class license, an antenna tuner and a little
perseverance, "work the world".
That's not true on the V/UHF bands were tweaking every milliwatt out of
a final amp and delivering it to more than a wire antenna makes or
breaks winners and losers.
--
Mike Urich, KA5CVH
http://ka5cvh.com
http://twitter.com/KA5CVH
Life is hard, church shouldn't be
http://fairmontpark.org
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 13:11:10 -0500
From: "Mike (KA5CVH) Urich" <ka5cvh@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [VHFcontesting] an open letter to the ARRL
To: Zack Widup <w9sz.zack@gmail.com>
Cc: VHF Contesting Reflector <vhfcontesting@contesting.com>
Message-ID:
<15b2c6c70905271111y7d3cc209lf3436db23f13a773@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
On Wed, May 27, 2009 at 1:04 PM, Zack Widup <w9sz.zack@gmail.com> wrote:
> the right time. I've missed out on others and said to myself "Oh well
...
> one of these days." Then one of those days happened. :-)
Mike asks
So Zack, are you saying like me (most of the time) ... when my ship
comes in I'll be at the airport. <g>
--
Mike Urich, KA5CVH
http://ka5cvh.com
http://twitter.com/KA5CVH
Life is hard, church shouldn't be
http://fairmontpark.org
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 13:14:11 -0500
From: Zack Widup <w9sz.zack@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [VHFcontesting] an open letter to the ARRL
To: "Mike (KA5CVH) Urich" <ka5cvh@gmail.com>, VHF Contesting
Reflector <vhfcontesting@contesting.com>
Message-ID:
<31c63d050905271114w1b351269j375d576ab7997df6@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Yep.
:-)
I missed practically every opportunity for rainscatter QSO's last summer
because of a weird schedule. Hope I can make some this year!
73, Zack W9SZ
On Wed, May 27, 2009 at 1:11 PM, Mike (KA5CVH) Urich
<ka5cvh@gmail.com>wrote:
> On Wed, May 27, 2009 at 1:04 PM, Zack Widup <w9sz.zack@gmail.com>
wrote:
>
> > the right time. I've missed out on others and said to myself "Oh
well ...
> > one of these days." Then one of those days happened. :-)
>
> Mike asks
>
> So Zack, are you saying like me (most of the time) ... when my ship
> comes in I'll be at the airport. <g>
>
>
> --
> Mike Urich, KA5CVH
> http://ka5cvh.com
> http://twitter.com/KA5CVH
>
> Life is hard, church shouldn't be
> http://fairmontpark.org
>
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 12:14:59 -0600
From: "Nate Duehr" <nate@natetech.com>
Subject: Re: [VHFcontesting] Changes to ARRL VHF Contest Rules
To: vhfcontesting@contesting.com
Message-ID: <1243448099.17836.1317493683@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
On Wed, 27 May 2009 12:07:53 -0400, "Steve Clifford" <k4gun.r@gmail.com>
said:
> What the heck? What happened to the VUAC recommendation about
> limiting the number of rover to rover contacts? If the ARRL is not
> going to address grid circling in the Limited Rover category, I don't
> see why they bothered to make any changes at all.
Take it easy Steve, in that regard they already implemented 100
rover-to-rover contacts maximum during the first version of the contest
rules this year. It's in there.
It completely disregards the published goal of the contest, and doesn't
tackle the problem head-on... if it's even a problem... but there's
something in the rules to attempt to address the perceived "problem" of
grid-circling.
Personally, I still don't see it as a problem... it's just a strategy.
A strategy for winners. Not a strategy I particularly LIKE, but it's a
radio operating contest, not a popularity contest.
Nate WY0X
--
Nate Duehr
nate@natetech.com
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 13:22:22 -0500
From: "Mike (KA5CVH) Urich" <ka5cvh@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [VHFcontesting] Changes to ARRL VHF Contest Rules
To: Nate Duehr <nate@natetech.com>
Cc: vhfcontesting@contesting.com
Message-ID:
<15b2c6c70905271122k6d18e341p45e5649dd62eb6a1@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
On Wed, May 27, 2009 at 1:14 PM, Nate Duehr <nate@natetech.com> wrote:
> Take it easy Steve, in that regard they already implemented 100
> rover-to-rover contacts maximum during the first version of the
> contest rules this year. ?It's in there.
Mike wrote
That's kinda like saying the high score will be limited to 1 trillion
points.
--
Mike Urich, KA5CVH
http://ka5cvh.com
http://twitter.com/KA5CVH
Life is hard, church shouldn't be
http://fairmontpark.org
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 14:44:06 -0400
From: Steve Clifford <k4gun.r@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [VHFcontesting] Changes to ARRL VHF Contest Rules
To: Nate Duehr <nate@natetech.com>
Cc: vhfcontesting@contesting.com
Message-ID:
<cf8c8bec0905271144g65f0d02eqdfd33d0feb39ca45@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
"Take it easy"? I used the word "heck" instead of a variety of other
words that sprung to mind so I would say that I am taking it fairly
easy.
If you fail to see why grid circling is not a problem, then I can see
why you understand the PSC's stance with regard to the VUAC's
recommendations.
The rovers know the problem. We may disagree on the solution, but there
is consensus on the problem. The PSC is now on record as supporting an
activity that is clearly and widely despised by the vast majority of VHF
rovers. The decision is absolutely absurd.
So yes... I'm taking it easy.
Steve
K4GUN/R
------------------------------
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