I had a stack of 3 with all having matching tubes in the late 90's and
early 2000's.
Randy N1KWF
On Tue, May 20, 2025 at 8:02 AM Jim W7RY <jimw7ry@gmail.com> wrote:
> And you would be incorrect.
>
> It had large matching tubes along the boom, with a hairpin stub ground
> in the middle. The large tubes are about 2-3 feet long.
>
> Please look at the manual
>
> Jim W7RY
>
>
> On 5/19/2025 11:25 PM, Al N6TA wrote:
> > The TH6DXX had no such matching, at least on the one I had new and used
> for
> > 20 years. Coax to BN86 and then directly to the insulated DE, Simple
> and
> > worked with no adjustments needed or possible.
> > Al N6TA
> >
> > On Mon, May 19, 2025 at 9:16 AM <towertalk-request@contesting.com>
> wrote:
> >
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> >> than "Re: Contents of TowerTalk digest..."
> >> Today's Topics:
> >>
> >> 1. Re: HELP - Hy-Gain TH-3JRS (Bill Cotter)
> >> 2. Re: HELP - Hy-Gain TH-3JRS (Tom Hellem)
> >> 3. Re: HELP - Hy-Gain TH-3JRS (Tom Hellem)
> >> 4. Re: HELP - Hy-Gain TH-3JRS (Gary Mayfield)
> >> 5. Re: HELP - Hy-Gain TH-3JRS (Wes)
> >> 6. Re: HELP - Hy-Gain TH-3JRS (Charles Tifft)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> >> From: Bill Cotter <n4lg@qx.net>
> >> To: Gary Mayfield <gary_mayfield@hotmail.com>
> >> Cc: "towertalk@contesting.com" <towertalk@contesting.com>
> >> Bcc:
> >> Date: Sun, 18 May 2025 12:29:38 -0400
> >> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] HELP - Hy-Gain TH-3JRS
> >> Gary,
> >>
> >> Attached is the manual for the TH-3 MK3 that shows the (grounded)
> >> beta-match dimensions, and the coax choke. I think the hairpin may
> >> be the problem (inductor vs transmission line). I think I would
> >> construct the beta match as designed. It should be easy to make up
> >> from available materials. And, thoroughly inspecting the traps for
> >> electrical integrity and correct location is a must.
> >>
> >> 73 es GL Bill N4LG
> >>
> >>
> >> At 09:19 AM 5/18/2025, Gary Mayfield wrote:
> >>> Thanks Jim,
> >>>
> >>> We did test with the long coax on the ground, and your
> >>> point is well taken about the balun vs a choke. We will take a
> >>> fine tooth comb to our hairpin recreation. I suspect that may be
> >>> a contributing factor.
> >>>
> >>> 73,
> >>> Joe n0sd
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: TowerTalk <towertalk-bounces@contesting.com> On Behalf Of
> >>> Jim Brown
> >>> Sent: Saturday, May 17, 2025 11:18 PM
> >>> To: towertalk@contesting.com
> >>> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] HELP - Hy-Gain TH-3JRS
> >>>
> >>> On 5/17/2025 6:04 PM, Gary Mayfield wrote:
> >>>> We have also added a balun made from type 31 ferrite material.
> >>> Hi Gary,
> >>>
> >>> Don't know anything about that antenna or have a solution for your
> >>> problem, BUT -- if that #31 is a lot of turns of transmission line
> >>> wound around a 2.4-in o.d. core, it is a Common Mode Choke, NOT a
> >>> "balun."
> >>> Antennas like yours are designed for specific matching networks or
> >>> feeding methods. A choke is used between the transmission line and
> >>> that matching system, whatever it is. These matching systems are
> >>> often called baluns.
> >>>
> >>> And with respect to your problem and on-the-ground testing -- did
> >>> you have a long length of coax on it when testing on the ground,
> >>> or just the analyzer connected with a few feet of coax? Their
> >>> matching networks often want to be driven by that coax.
> >>>
> >>> Also, study carefully as you can what the original matching system
> >>> was.
> >>> With gamma and hairpin matching, both the length and the diameter
> >>> of the
> >>> rod(s) matter.
> >>>
> >>> 73, Jim K9YC
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> TowerTalk mailing list
> >>> TowerTalk@contesting.com
> >>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> TowerTalk mailing list
> >>> TowerTalk@contesting.com
> >>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> >> From: Tom Hellem <tom.hellem@gmail.com>
> >> To: "jim.thom jim.thom@telus.net" <jim.thom@telus.net>
> >> Cc: towertalk@contesting.com
> >> Bcc:
> >> Date: Sun, 18 May 2025 12:25:29 -0600
> >> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] HELP - Hy-Gain TH-3JRS
> >> The hairpin match , yes a very good question indeed.
> >> In fact, so good that Hygain didn’t choose to answer it in
> >> their instruction manual. They show all the parts for it, including
> >> what looks like an adjustable shorting bar, but absolutely no
> >> mention of it in the text. DX Engineering is still selling them, with
> >> the exact same manual. What a joke.
> >>
> >> Tom K0SN
> >>
> >> On Sun, May 18, 2025 at 8:35 AM jim.thom jim.thom@telus.net <
> >> jim.thom@telus.net> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Date: Sun, 18 May 2025 13:19:54 +0000
> >>> From: Gary Mayfield <gary_mayfield@hotmail.com>
> >>> To: "towertalk@contesting.com" <towertalk@contesting.com>
> >>> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] HELP - Hy-Gain TH-3JRS
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> > We did test with the long coax on the ground, and your point
> is
> >>> well taken about the >balun vs a choke. We will take a fine tooth comb
> to
> >>> our hairpin recreation. I suspect that >may be a contributing factor.
> >>>
> >>>> 73,
> >>>> Joe n0sd
> >>> How exactly does Hygain manage to get a hairpin to work on 3 bands ???
> >>> Typ when you raise the yagi from 8' to top of tower, the resonance
> >> points
> >>> will all shift up in freq.
> >>>
> >>> Jim VE7RF
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> TowerTalk mailing list
> >>> TowerTalk@contesting.com
> >>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> >> From: Tom Hellem <tom.hellem@gmail.com>
> >> To: Bill Cotter <n4lg@qx.net>
> >> Cc: Gary Mayfield <gary_mayfield@hotmail.com>, "
> towertalk@contesting.com"
> >> <towertalk@contesting.com>
> >> Bcc:
> >> Date: Sun, 18 May 2025 18:42:26 -0600
> >> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] HELP - Hy-Gain TH-3JRS
> >> There is no difference between a hairpin match and a beta match, its
> just 2
> >> different names for the same thing.
> >> My understanding of them is that it's a device for raising the
> feedpoint Z
> >> of a yagi, typically 25-35 ohms, up to 50 ohms. But when you build one,
> you
> >> can only adjust its length for one frequency band. I have never seen one
> >> used on a tribander, only on monoband antennas.
> >>
> >> Could this be another example of confusion on the part of the folks at
> MFJ?
> >> Maybe they got tribanders mixed up with monobanders and just stuck a
> beta
> >> match on the TH-3JR-S because they didn't know any better.
> >>
> >> All of the trapped tribanders that I have worked with, and it's been
> quite
> >> a few, were direct fed with no matching system. The losses in the traps
> >> probably provide the extra Z to arrive at 50 ohms.
> >>
> >> It might be worth just removing the beta match altogether and see what
> >> happens.
> >>
> >> K0SN
> >>
> >>
> >> On Sun, May 18, 2025 at 10:33 AM Bill Cotter <n4lg@qx.net> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Gary,
> >>>
> >>> Attached is the manual for the TH-3 MK3 that shows the (grounded)
> >>> beta-match dimensions, and the coax choke. I think the hairpin may
> >>> be the problem (inductor vs transmission line). I think I would
> >>> construct the beta match as designed. It should be easy to make up
> >>> from available materials. And, thoroughly inspecting the traps for
> >>> electrical integrity and correct location is a must.
> >>>
> >>> 73 es GL Bill N4LG
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> At 09:19 AM 5/18/2025, Gary Mayfield wrote:
> >>>> Thanks Jim,
> >>>>
> >>>> We did test with the long coax on the ground, and your
> >>>> point is well taken about the balun vs a choke. We will take a
> >>>> fine tooth comb to our hairpin recreation. I suspect that may be
> >>>> a contributing factor.
> >>>>
> >>>> 73,
> >>>> Joe n0sd
> >>>>
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: TowerTalk <towertalk-bounces@contesting.com> On Behalf Of
> >>>> Jim Brown
> >>>> Sent: Saturday, May 17, 2025 11:18 PM
> >>>> To: towertalk@contesting.com
> >>>> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] HELP - Hy-Gain TH-3JRS
> >>>>
> >>>> On 5/17/2025 6:04 PM, Gary Mayfield wrote:
> >>>>> We have also added a balun made from type 31 ferrite material.
> >>>> Hi Gary,
> >>>>
> >>>> Don't know anything about that antenna or have a solution for your
> >>>> problem, BUT -- if that #31 is a lot of turns of transmission line
> >>>> wound around a 2.4-in o.d. core, it is a Common Mode Choke, NOT a
> >>>> "balun."
> >>>> Antennas like yours are designed for specific matching networks or
> >>>> feeding methods. A choke is used between the transmission line and
> >>>> that matching system, whatever it is. These matching systems are
> >>>> often called baluns.
> >>>>
> >>>> And with respect to your problem and on-the-ground testing -- did
> >>>> you have a long length of coax on it when testing on the ground,
> >>>> or just the analyzer connected with a few feet of coax? Their
> >>>> matching networks often want to be driven by that coax.
> >>>>
> >>>> Also, study carefully as you can what the original matching system
> >>>> was.
> >>>> With gamma and hairpin matching, both the length and the diameter
> >>>> of the
> >>>> rod(s) matter.
> >>>>
> >>>> 73, Jim K9YC
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> TowerTalk mailing list
> >>>> TowerTalk@contesting.com
> >>>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> TowerTalk mailing list
> >>>> TowerTalk@contesting.com
> >>>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> TowerTalk mailing list
> >>> TowerTalk@contesting.com
> >>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> >> From: Gary Mayfield <gary_mayfield@hotmail.com>
> >> To: "'towertalk@contesting.com'" <towertalk@contesting.com>
> >> Cc:
> >> Bcc:
> >> Date: Mon, 19 May 2025 00:46:43 +0000
> >> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] HELP - Hy-Gain TH-3JRS
> >> We had a much better day today. We removed the hairpin, and the choke
> and
> >> fed the antenna with split coax and got the same results as before. ---
> Has
> >> to be a trap...
> >>
> >> The traps all measure as dead shorts at DC (expected), but while
> measuring
> >> one of the traps with an ohmmeter a sweep of the antenna shows dips (off
> >> frequency) in the SWR (not just flat bad).
> >>
> >> We took that trap apart and it looked great, but we did get two tiny
> drops
> >> of dirty water. It was damp, but not wet. We cleaned it and put it back
> >> together and presto - three nice dips, pretty much on frequency.
> >>
> >> We reconnected the hairpin and the in band SWR went from around 3 to 1
> in
> >> each band to around 1.2 to 1 on each band (hey it really does help match
> >> the antenna). We added the choke and it didn't have any SWR impact,
> but we
> >> are quite pleased and Rich's new antenna is on the air. The lift can be
> >> returned in the morning. If you hear Rich ke0epy (originally wn0vzp) on
> the
> >> air - say howdy!
> >>
> >> Thanks to all the folks who provided input. This reflector is a great
> >> sounding board!
> >>
> >> 73,
> >> Joe n0sd
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: TowerTalk <towertalk-bounces@contesting.com> On Behalf Of Gary
> >> Mayfield
> >> Sent: Saturday, May 17, 2025 8:04 PM
> >> To: 'towertalk@contesting.com' <towertalk@contesting.com>
> >> Subject: [TowerTalk] HELP - Hy-Gain TH-3JRS
> >>
> >> Hello - We had a frustrating afternoon today trying to put up a Hy-Gain
> >> TH-3JRS at the QTH of Rich, KE0EPY.
> >>
> >> The antenna is previously owned, and we replaced the broken aluminum
> >> matching wire (beta match) with one made of copper. We have also added a
> >> balun made from type 31 ferrite material. Other than that, the antenna
> >> seems to be all original. A few days ago, we tested the antenna on top
> of
> >> an 8-foot fiberglass ladder, and it had three nice SWR dips right where
> you
> >> would expect for 20, 15 and 10 meters. Today before taking the antenna
> up
> >> the tower, we checked it all again, by pointing it lifting it a couple
> feet
> >> and pointing it straight up. Again, we saw 3 nice dips where they were
> >> expected.
> >>
> >> Once we mounted it on the tower the SWR went very high and only showed
> one
> >> small dip just below 15 meters at 20.8 MHz. Thinking the coax had been
> >> damaged we took a small jumper up in the lift and connected directly to
> the
> >> balun but got the same results. Then we bypassed the balun - same
> results.
> >> We removed the beta match and connected straight to the driven element
> and
> >> got the same results. With the beta match removed the two sides of the
> >> driven element are not shorted to each other or the boom.
> >>
> >> We have the lift for another day. Any ideas/thought/suggestions will be
> >> greatly appreciated!!
> >>
> >> Thanks, and 73,
> >> Joe - n0sd
> >> _______________________________________________
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> TowerTalk mailing list
> >> TowerTalk@contesting.com
> >> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> >> From: Wes <wes_n7ws@triconet.org>
> >> To: towertalk@contesting.com
> >> Cc:
> >> Bcc:
> >> Date: Mon, 19 May 2025 06:21:13 -0700
> >> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] HELP - Hy-Gain TH-3JRS
> >> The beta or hairpin match is an L-network with a shortened driven
> element
> >> providing the capacitance and the hairpin providing the inductance. It
> is
> >> not
> >> necessarily a single-band solution.
> >>
> >> IIRC, the TH-3, TH-3JR and the TH6DXX all used them.
> >>
> >> Wes N7WS
> >>
> >>
> >> On 5/18/2025 5:42 PM, Tom Hellem wrote:
> >>> There is no difference between a hairpin match and a beta match, its
> >> just 2
> >>> different names for the same thing.
> >>> My understanding of them is that it's a device for raising the
> >> feedpoint Z
> >>> of a yagi, typically 25-35 ohms, up to 50 ohms. But when you build one,
> >> you
> >>> can only adjust its length for one frequency band. I have never seen
> one
> >>> used on a tribander, only on monoband antennas.
> >>>
> >>> Could this be another example of confusion on the part of the folks at
> >> MFJ?
> >>> Maybe they got tribanders mixed up with monobanders and just stuck a
> beta
> >>> match on the TH-3JR-S because they didn't know any better.
> >>>
> >>> All of the trapped tribanders that I have worked with, and it's been
> >> quite
> >>> a few, were direct fed with no matching system. The losses in the
> traps
> >>> probably provide the extra Z to arrive at 50 ohms.
> >>>
> >>> It might be worth just removing the beta match altogether and see what
> >>> happens.
> >>>
> >>> K0SN
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> >> From: Charles Tifft <chuckw6rd@yahoo.com>
> >> To: Wes <wes_n7ws@triconet.org>
> >> Cc: towertalk@contesting.com
> >> Bcc:
> >> Date: Mon, 19 May 2025 06:29:37 -0700
> >> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] HELP - Hy-Gain TH-3JRS
> >> Couple Wilson Tribanders too. SYS1 and SYS36 come to mind.
> >> W6RD
> >>
> >>> On May 19, 2025, at 6:21 AM, Wes <wes_n7ws@triconet.org> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> The beta or hairpin match is an L-network with a shortened driven
> >> element providing the capacitance and the hairpin providing the
> >> inductance. It is not necessarily a single-band solution.
> >>> IIRC, the TH-3, TH-3JR and the TH6DXX all used them.
> >>>
> >>> Wes N7WS
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On 5/18/2025 5:42 PM, Tom Hellem wrote:
> >>>> There is no difference between a hairpin match and a beta match, its
> >> just 2
> >>>> different names for the same thing.
> >>>> My understanding of them is that it's a device for raising the
> >> feedpoint Z
> >>>> of a yagi, typically 25-35 ohms, up to 50 ohms. But when you build
> one,
> >> you
> >>>> can only adjust its length for one frequency band. I have never seen
> one
> >>>> used on a tribander, only on monoband antennas.
> >>>>
> >>>> Could this be another example of confusion on the part of the folks at
> >> MFJ?
> >>>> Maybe they got tribanders mixed up with monobanders and just stuck a
> >> beta
> >>>> match on the TH-3JR-S because they didn't know any better.
> >>>>
> >>>> All of the trapped tribanders that I have worked with, and it's been
> >> quite
> >>>> a few, were direct fed with no matching system. The losses in the
> traps
> >>>> probably provide the extra Z to arrive at 50 ohms.
> >>>>
> >>>> It might be worth just removing the beta match altogether and see what
> >>>> happens.
> >>>>
> >>>> K0SN
> >>>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> TowerTalk mailing list
> >>> TowerTalk@contesting.com
> >>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> TowerTalk mailing list
> >> TowerTalk@contesting.com
> >> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > TowerTalk mailing list
> > TowerTalk@contesting.com
> > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TowerTalk mailing list
> TowerTalk@contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
>
--
Randy Lake N1KWF
73 Gunn Rd.
Keene,NH
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