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Re: [TowerTalk] Vertical and radials

To: towertalk <towertalk@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Vertical and radials
From: Robert Harmon <k6uj@pacbell.net>
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2022 09:39:38 -0800
List-post: <mailto:towertalk@contesting.com>
Thanks Dave,   

I will look into it.

Bob
K6UJ

> On Jan 22, 2022, at 9:36 AM, Dave Sublette <k4to.dave@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Do you have an agriculture extension office or a Farm Services Admin office 
> in your area?  You might try calling them and asking if they have that data.  
> As much grape growing as there is in your area, one would think that all of 
> the soil data is available.
> 
> 73,
> 
> Dave, K4TO
> 
> On Sat, Jan 22, 2022 at 12:22 PM Robert Harmon <k6uj@pacbell.net 
> <mailto:k6uj@pacbell.net>> wrote:
> I love your perfect QTH description.   A hill of salt water, sloping gently 
> in all directions.   hihihi
> 
> I am having trouble finding ground conductivity fro my area in the north San 
> Francisco Bay Area.  Napa county.
> Looks like my area shows a number 8.  Where is he chart to find out what this 
> means in conductivity ?
> Wish I could find a map that I could drill down closer to my QTH.  I know it 
> is pretty good right now, we have had 
> lots of rain the last few weeks.
> 
> Bob
> K6UJ
> 
> 
> 
> > On Jan 22, 2022, at 3:58 AM, John Langdon <jlangdon1@austin.rr.com 
> > <mailto:jlangdon1@austin.rr.com>> wrote:
> > 
> > The other thing that K5IU was clear about is that the ground under the
> > antenna is the dominant factor in performance regardless of the radials you
> > use.  
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > If you have really low conductivity soil under the antenna, even if you
> > mount a vertical on a 1/4 wavelength radius copper disc, essentially an
> > infinite number of buried radials, you are going to get poor performance.
> > Elevated radials will be as good or better in that situation, and are less
> > work, but a high dipole, over poor soil, will be equal or better.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > If you have really high conductivity soil, a modest number of buried radials
> > or a set of 4 1/8 wavelength elevated radials tuned with an inductor will
> > probably give you good performance.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > If you are over salt water, a single resonant radial will work very well.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > BTW the ground conductivity maps most of us have access to, like
> > https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:United_States_Effective_Ground_Condu
> >  
> > <https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:United_States_Effective_Ground_Condu>
> > ctivity_Map.png , are from data averaged over a large area  and any given
> > location within an area on the map may vary widely from the average. The
> > perfect QTH is a hill of salt water, sloping gently in all directions.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 73 John N5CQ
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > 
> > 
> > 
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> 
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