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Re: [TowerTalk] Feed Point Choke Question

To: towertalk@contesting.com
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Feed Point Choke Question
From: Jeff Blaine <KeepWalking188@ac0c.com>
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2020 21:23:00 -0600
List-post: <mailto:towertalk@contesting.com>
Kirk,

Almost all the chokes I've used in the last 10 years have been built loosely around the K9YC cookbook.  Those are generally speaking a couple of type 31 ferrites with a few turns of coax running through it, with the turns widely spaces (not bundled). Works great, is simple to make and quick.

As with so many projects like this, you certainly can spend a lot of time working on esoteric optimizations which may or may not be noticeable.   So go with what you have, and it will probably work just fine.

As to the optimal number of cores & turns, that depends on the bands of interest and what you have in the way of core inventory there.  But if you will hunt down the K9YC transmission choke cookbook, Jim has done all the lab work there - just follow his recommendations (if you have enough cores) and leave the rest as a good winter research project for when it's too cold to go outside.

73/jeff/ac0c
alpha-charlie-zero-charlie
www.ac0c.com


On 11/6/20 7:38 PM, Kirk Kleinschmidt via TowerTalk wrote:
Okay. Let's try to simplify my situation.
Storm cloud are visible, so I don't have time to buy teflon coax and wind an 
awesome choke, mount it in a box, install SO-239s, etc. I DO have 12-gauge 
THHN, but I don't have the time to source a workbox and install connectors 
right now. In the spring this will all be redone properly, as the antenna will 
be moved to a taller tower, etc.
Think of this as a post-apocalyptic scenario. No shopping. No non-zombies with 
whom to trade. Etc. Just what I have on hand.

I have a hexagonal beam on top of a 22-foot tilt-over tower. At the base of the 
tower I have a weather-resistant box that houses a terminal strip (for patching 
my tower rotator cable to my shack run of rotator cable) and a UHF bulkhead / 
union, for patching my tower coax, which includes a rotator loop AND a ferrite 
core, to the length of larger coax that runs back to the shack.

The tower coax is RG-8X or LMR-240. Including the choke and the rotator loop it 
will be 30-35 feet long.
So, with storm clouds visible and no time to shop or build the best possible 
choke, what do I do?
I have a length of coax, and I have an FT-240-43 or an FT-240-31. How many turns?  
Solenoid or bunched up?  Tightly wound or turns of a couple inches?

Experts get set. Experts get ready. Experts GO!
Thanks.  :)
--Kirk, NT0Z

P.S. LUV the cold-WX signal boost that I have historically enjoyed...but as I 
approach my early-onset curmudgeon phase, I'll take the T-shirt WX we're now 
having in MN (2 days only).

P.P.S. The hexagonal beam manufacturer sells / recommends a sleeve balun made 
from a bunch of ferrite cores slid onto the coax near the antenna's feed point. 
That may indeed work from 20-10 meters, but I have never been all that 
enthusiastic about that approach. At any rate, I only have a few of the 
2.4-inchers on hand.
P.P.P.S. I don't know if I have correctly sized/wound them, but I wish I would have learned 
about K9YC-style chokes much earlier in my ham career. Since I have used them (past 6-8 years) 
the level of locally received noise on all external and attic-mounted antennas has dropped 
dramatically. I have new appreciation for the intricasies of winding, designing, and testing 
them, but right now I just want someone "in the know" to help me wind something that 
works reasonably well from the materials I have on hand.  :)


My book, "Stealth Amateur Radio," is now available from www.stealthamateur.com 
and on the Amazon Kindle (soon)

     On Friday, November 6, 2020, 2:59:10 PM CST, Artek Manuals 
<manuals@artekmanuals.com> wrote:
Jim

Show me the ACTUAL antenna range pattern measurement data  with and
without the common mode choke on a a similar antenna, with a reasonable
SWR ( LESS THAN 1.5:1)  and the feed line has been brought down
perpendicular to the plane of the antenna and I will concede you the point

Dave
NR1DX


On 11/6/2020 3:37 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
On 11/6/2020 12:28 PM, Artek Manuals wrote:
The short answer is how tight you make the turns will have little
real world effect.
That short answer is WRONG.

Use the RG-8X I would probably use the #31 core over the
43 . The poor mans 8 turns of coax 4-5" in diameter without ferrites
will probably actually work as well.
Define "work." The important thing a choke should do is kill common
mode current on the feedline that couples noise to the antenna and
fills in nulls in the antenna's pattern. That "poor man's" solution
won't do much for that. If "work" means it won't overheat, yes, it
would "work."

Depending on SWR and feed line dressing (always perpendicular to the
plane of the beam the need for choke at all� is arguable
It's arguable only if you don't understand the problem, or don't care
about noise or the antenna's nulls.

73, Jim K9YC
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