Check out the new SteppIR WEB page. New controller with relays on output to
protect the thing...finally. Discussion of new management. N0UU
> On October 31, 2017 at 7:43 AM towertalk-request@contesting.com wrote:
>
>
> Send TowerTalk mailing list submissions to
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>
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> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
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>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: VNA (Grant Saviers)
> 2. Re: VNA (Jim Brown)
> 3. Re: Cob Web Antenna (Dan Maguire)
> 4. Re: VNA (Marv Shelton)
> 5. Meandering line "square wave" antenna design for shorter 160m
> Beverage? (Rick Braddy)
> 6. Re: VNA (Marty s)
> 7. Re: VNA (Jim Brown)
> 8. Re: Meandering line "square wave" antenna design for shorter
> 160m Beverage? (David Gilbert)
> 9. Modeling the SteppIR Yagis (Dan Maguire)
> 10. Re: VNA (M?ximo EA1DDO_HK1H)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2017 19:57:40 -0700
> From: Grant Saviers <grants2@pacbell.net>
> To: Neal Sulmeyer <Neal@k4ea.net>, towertalk@contesting.com
> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] VNA
> Message-ID: <59F7E6A4.9000001@pacbell.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>
> I have a collection, acquired over time and need and economics. First a
> noise bridge, then a couple of Auteks. (yikes, how old am I?) Then the
> MFJ259, useful, but sold it since it overloaded with AM. I had direct
> line of sight to 50kw 1MHz BCB 3 miles at my former QTH. Not good, 1
> volt on the power lines. Upgraded to a 4170, slight overload from the
> BCB but useful results and also much more capability. Still have it,
> has a good GUI for TDR, but not self powered and needs a PC. Then added
> a VNWA for two port measurements and it rarely leaves my workbench.
> Tuned/checked lots of filters. Upgraded from v2 to v3 of VNWA. A lab
> grade instrument at 10% of the cost. Then for going on a DXpedition I
> bought a AA54, a solid instrument and rugged, although I had to tweak
> the case to allow a PL to seat fully on the SO. The new model and QST
> review look very nice. Then added a SARK for portability, the new ucode
> is a good improvement but it is a bit fragile at the connector. Does
> everything a single port analyzer can do and is super portable but is
> tiny, so human factors might be an issue for some hams. I took both
> SARK and AA54 on my last DXpeditions. Used both. Left one behind when
> another station's analyzer got fried - easy to do in a multi QRO
> transmitter environment. Everybody needs to QRT when measuring an
> antenna nearby.
>
> Size, battery power, rugged, & no PC needed are first priorities for me
> in field antenna work. For bench work, components, filters, etc. the
> VNWA is essential. Portables with a computer connection and good TDR
> plot are a plus for checking feedlines before or after on the tower, the
> small screens don't hack it.
>
> Also be aware that AFAIK, ALL mentioned can be overloaded and in one
> case we could only get consistent data transmitting at 5w with a K3 &
> SWR meter for some big antennas. The ham analyzers don't have the front
> ends or processing technologies of an Agilent or a $80k Rhode and
> Schwarz (drool).
>
> So that is my history and uses of them. Several great choices for
> whatever your needs. Not owned is the YouKits FG-01, but have used
> others and it works fine.
>
> Grant KZ1W
>
>
> On 10/30/2017 17:29 PM, Neal Sulmeyer wrote:
> > ?My MFJ 259B is 25 years old and obsolete. Time for an upgrade. I'm
> > considering the AIM 4300 (updgrade to the AIM4170 recommended by ON4UN).
> >
> > I would like to hear some opinions on this device and others from my fellow
> > TowerTalkers.
> >
> > Neal, K4EA
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > TowerTalk mailing list
> > TowerTalk@contesting.com
> > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2017 20:08:54 -0700
> From: Jim Brown <jim@audiosystemsgroup.com>
> To: towertalk@contesting.com
> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] VNA
> Message-ID:
> <855e4949-2dcc-6623-33b3-0ade41741158@audiosystemsgroup.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>
> For about four years, I've been using the VNWA 3e, designed by German EE
> prof DG8SAQ and built by some hams in the UK under the name SDR-Kits.
> It's not a kit, it's fully built and tested. I paid about $770 then,
> delivered to my door, with calibration loads and a carrying case; thanks
> to Brexit, it's about $100 less today.? It's quite well supported both
> by SDR Kits and by DG8SAQ via an email reflector.? In addition to the
> standard VNA functions, it does excellent TDR by taking the inverse FFT
> of a wide sweep. The unit has full spec to 500 MHz, and reduced dynamic
> range to 1.3 GHz.
>
> The file export functions work well, there are built-in math functions
> that can, for example, transform an SWR sweep to 75 ohms. The unit is
> also supported by AC6LA's excellent Excel spreadsheets. SimSmith and
> most of AC6LA's spreadsheets are freeware. I regularly use his ZPlots to
> compute the fundamental parameters of coax by importing S11 data from
> the VNWA into ZPlots.
>
> I regularly make Z measurements of antennas in the shack, measure the
> line with TDR to find its length, and export the data to SimSmith to
> transform the measurement to the antenna's feedpoint. I also use TDR to
> look for any problems along a transmission line. The unit stores
> multiple calibration files, so once you've done a calibration for one
> measurement setup, you can recall it on another day without the need to
> redo the calibration. The measurements in this report were done with the
> VNWA 3e.
>
> http://k9yc.com/BandpassFilterSurvey.pdf
>
> So were these measurements of DX Engineering's excellent NCC-1 phasing
> unit.
>
> http://k9yc.com/VE3DO.pdf
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
> On 10/30/2017 5:29 PM, Neal Sulmeyer wrote:
> > ?My MFJ 259B is 25 years old and obsolete. Time for an upgrade. I'm
> > considering the AIM 4300 (updgrade to the AIM4170 recommended by ON4UN).
> >
> > I would like to hear some opinions on this device and others from my fellow
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2017 20:38:46 -0700
> From: Dan Maguire <danac6la@gmail.com>
> To: towertalk <towertalk@contesting.com>
> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Cob Web Antenna
> Message-ID:
> <CAOnXRMsuvz8wZLLjG1Q5KbYUiWZ0X-xuLz3oi5PQtFk1rjGV8Q@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> W4TV wrote:
> >>> The "diamond" option is interesting ... are the feedlines connected from
> >>> feed point to feed point or are they all connected in parallel at the
> >>> "balun box"?
>
> I actually modeled both variations. In the graphics for the second
> section on this page
>
> http://ac6la.com/aecollection9.html
>
> the wires view following the words "Here's a different variation; a
> diamond shape ..." shows the one using separate feedpoints connected
> via short, 12.5 ohm transmission lines. That one requires four
> user-made transmission lines plus a 4:1 balun. Then the last wires
> view at the end of the section, following "Another idea I tinkered
> with ..." shows all the feedpoints ganged together like a normal
> cobweb. That just requires a 4:1 balun.
>
> In this zip file
>
> http://ac6la.com/adhoc/Cobwebs.zip
>
> the first variation is model "AC6LA Diamond Cobweb.weq" and the second
> is "AC6LA Diamond v2 Cobweb.weq".
>
> >>> Have you tried modelling a 40/30 meter version ...
>
> Nope. But if any AutoEZ users would like to give it a go by changing
> a few variables in one of the existing models I'll be happy to help
> you out if you get stuck.
>
> >>> ... and placing it 5 feet or so above/below a three/four element yagi
> >>> while checking for any interaction 40 to 15 or 30 to 10 meters?
>
> Nope again. Same offer.
>
> Dan, AC6LA
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2017 21:02:00 -0700
> From: Marv Shelton <marvs@att.net>
> To: towertalk@contesting.com
> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] VNA
> Message-ID: <3E3F303E-1868-4845-BE03-2BF6E0EE55B5@att.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Neal,
> I remember a VNA review in QST some time ago. I am sure you can find it.
> Meanwhile I feel that you need 2 devices, one for the field and one for the
> shack/lab. They need to cover the bands you are active on of course.
> The field device should enable you to measure feedpoint characteristics and
> sweep the entire band of interest. The lab version should give you data that
> can be input into antenna analysis and design programs to do calculations for
> matching networks, tuning stubs and the like.
> Just my two cents.
>
> Marv wa2bfw
>
> Sent from my iPad
> And YES it's cool!
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2017 19:22:53 -0500
> From: Rick Braddy <rbraddy@gmail.com>
> To: towertalk@contesting.com
> Subject: [TowerTalk] Meandering line "square wave" antenna design for
> shorter 160m Beverage?
> Message-ID:
> <CA+okkAyCAxikzyXpBG1oLPM2nwd92TdRq0p3i-ZZ5AfgSr3Z6Q@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> Hi,
>
> I am investigating a potential new design for a Beverage-like antenna that
> is much shorter than the traditional long-wire Beverage, that many (most?)
> of us do not have enough space to deploy. I originally posted this concept
> on the Flex Radio forum here
> <https://community.flexradio.com/flexradio/topics/meandering-line-square-wave-beverage-antenna-for-160-meters>,
> which resulted in many excellent suggestions, including one to post to this
> reflector to see if there's anyone with NEC modeling skills who can assist
> me in getting this model across the finish line (my 4nec2 skills are still
> developing).
>
> https://community.flexradio.com/flexradio/topics/meandering-line-square-wave-beverage-antenna-for-160-meters
>
> It's entirely possible that I may be barking up the wrong tree, but if this
> concept antenna does work and perform reasonably well, it would provide
> many of us an option for 160 and 80 meter DX'ing. The basic idea is to
> fold the lengthy Beverage antenna up into a series of "meandering lines"
> that (to me) look like a square wave. These antennas are very popular and
> effective on VHF and IoT devices at 2.5 Ghz, and have been successfully
> deployed in radar and military HF applications, although there's relatively
> little research published on them. This style of design would result in
> reducing the space required for the antenna by a factor of 10 or more (from
> 580 feet down to perhaps 50).
>
> In particular, the last post at the link above includes the current NEC
> model file, some charts showing the results thus far (which are
> inconclusive at best), and a link to the "C" program I'm using to generate
> the NEC model. I could use some consulting help to refine my NEC model to
> properly simulate the terminating resistor and perhaps other tweaks to get
> the model working well.
>
> Thanks in advance for pointing me in the right direction and any assistance.
>
> Rick
>
> --
>
> *Rick Braddy*
>
> *W5FCX*
>
> e-mail: rbraddy@gmail.com
>
> Mobile: 832-335-8610
>
> Web: w5fcx.net
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2017 20:55:42 -0400
> From: Marty s <0246811@gmail.com>
> To: k3lr@k3lr.com
> Cc: Richard Solomon <dickw1ksz@gmail.com>, towertalk
> <TowerTalk@contesting.com>
> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] VNA
> Message-ID:
> <CA+DveWZ-wgadcbeEurcWbsUVvuoO66nyiD-QRPentuLFwhYvJA@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> I too agree with Tim Duffy here. I have used the AA-230ZOOM
> extensively with great results. I have found the TDR functions super
> helpful too. It is far more capable than the MFJ unit, are quite fairly
> priced.
>
> Best,
> Marty Sullaway
> Marty.Sullaway@gmail.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 8:47 PM, Tim Duffy <k3lr@k3lr.com> wrote:
>
> > HI Neal:
> >
> > Check out the RigExpert 230ZOOM. It works great on all bands - even on 160
> > close to AM broadcast stations, no problems at all. The MFJ-259 cannot
> > handle AM broadcast - as it will give error results. The 230ZOOM stores
> > plots, etc. super feature set. Works great in the shack and out on the
> > tower.
> >
> > 73
> > Tim K3LR
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: TowerTalk [mailto:towertalk-bounces@contesting.com] On Behalf Of
> > Richard Solomon
> > Sent: Monday, October 30, 2017 8:39 PM
> > To: towertalk
> > Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] VNA
> >
> > I have the AIM-4170C and a really
> > old MFJ-259. The AIM-4170C is
> > a very useful tool in the shack, where
> > I can hook it up to a computer and
> > do detail analysis.
> >
> > But, when outside, at the Antenna,
> > I always reach for my trusty old MFJ.
> >
> > Both instruments have their place
> > in Antenna work.
> >
> > BTW, my MFJ-259 has worked since
> > day 1 with no issues. I added a high
> > capacity Lithium Battery to it so I can
> > use it for days without recharging.
> >
> > 73, Dick, W1KSZ
> >
> > On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 5:29 PM, Neal Sulmeyer <Neal@k4ea.net> wrote:
> >
> > > ?My MFJ 259B is 25 years old and obsolete. Time for an upgrade. I'm
> > > considering the AIM 4300 (updgrade to the AIM4170 recommended by ON4UN).
> > >
> > > I would like to hear some opinions on this device and others from my
> > > fellow TowerTalkers.
> > >
> > > Neal, K4EA
> > > _______________________________________________
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > TowerTalk mailing list
> > > TowerTalk@contesting.com
> > > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > TowerTalk mailing list
> > TowerTalk@contesting.com
> > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > TowerTalk mailing list
> > TowerTalk@contesting.com
> > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2017 22:07:46 -0700
> From: Jim Brown <jim@audiosystemsgroup.com>
> To: towertalk@contesting.com
> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] VNA
> Message-ID:
> <6a8e6508-8edc-f16f-2a9e-769712bfb34d@audiosystemsgroup.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>
> On 10/30/2017 9:02 PM, Marv Shelton wrote:
> > I remember a VNA review in QST some time ago.
>
> The VNWA 3e was due to get a rave review in that series, but a US vendor
> threatened a patent issue, and it was killed.
>
> BTW -- the VNWA 3e is powered via USB from its host computer. Most other
> VNAs lack this capability. It makes it far easier to use in the field.
> Some users are running it a Windoze tablet.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2017 23:42:47 -0700
> From: David Gilbert <xdavid@cis-broadband.com>
> To: towertalk@contesting.com
> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Meandering line "square wave" antenna design
> for shorter 160m Beverage?
> Message-ID: <8eafa1e3-9c89-2381-75be-556704ca0cf3@cis-broadband.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>
>
> It's not totally clear to me how you get 500 feet out of that sketch
> (I'm probably misunderstanding your description), but I don't think that
> configuration would work well at all, at least not as a Beverage.? A
> Beverage is a traveling wave antenna and current is induced in the wire
> from RF arriving along the length of the wire. Almost none of your wire
> is in the proper direction for that.? Also, the folded back segments are
> spaced closely enough, and the segments are a small enough percentage of
> a wavelength (meaning that the currents in adjacent wires are
> approximately in phase but going opposite directions), that I suspect
> whatever fields that actually get induced would mostly cancel each other.
>
> Just my opinion ...
>
> Dave? AB7E
>
>
>
> On 10/30/2017 5:22 PM, Rick Braddy wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I am investigating a potential new design for a Beverage-like antenna that
> > is much shorter than the traditional long-wire Beverage, that many (most?)
> > of us do not have enough space to deploy. I originally posted this concept
> > on the Flex Radio forum here
> > <https://community.flexradio.com/flexradio/topics/meandering-line-square-wave-beverage-antenna-for-160-meters>,
> > which resulted in many excellent suggestions, including one to post to this
> > reflector to see if there's anyone with NEC modeling skills who can assist
> > me in getting this model across the finish line (my 4nec2 skills are still
> > developing).
> >
> > https://community.flexradio.com/flexradio/topics/meandering-line-square-wave-beverage-antenna-for-160-meters
> >
> > It's entirely possible that I may be barking up the wrong tree, but if this
> > concept antenna does work and perform reasonably well, it would provide
> > many of us an option for 160 and 80 meter DX'ing. The basic idea is to
> > fold the lengthy Beverage antenna up into a series of "meandering lines"
> > that (to me) look like a square wave. These antennas are very popular and
> > effective on VHF and IoT devices at 2.5 Ghz, and have been successfully
> > deployed in radar and military HF applications, although there's relatively
> > little research published on them. This style of design would result in
> > reducing the space required for the antenna by a factor of 10 or more (from
> > 580 feet down to perhaps 50).
> >
> > In particular, the last post at the link above includes the current NEC
> > model file, some charts showing the results thus far (which are
> > inconclusive at best), and a link to the "C" program I'm using to generate
> > the NEC model. I could use some consulting help to refine my NEC model to
> > properly simulate the terminating resistor and perhaps other tweaks to get
> > the model working well.
> >
> > Thanks in advance for pointing me in the right direction and any assistance.
> >
> > Rick
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2017 09:22:48 +0000 (UTC)
> From: Dan Maguire <djm2150@yahoo.com>
> To: <towertalk@contesting.com>
> Subject: [TowerTalk] Modeling the SteppIR Yagis
> Message-ID: <955177388.7362220.1509441768270@mail.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> AutoEZ format models are now available for each of the nine Yagis in the
> current SteppIR line-up: 2E, 3E, 4E, DB11, DB18, DB18E, DB36, DB42, and the
> UrbanBeam. Complete details and downloads available here:
>
> http://ac6la.com/aecollection10.html
>
> I've also just finished models for the discontinued DB32 (like the 4E 40m-6m
> but with a second loop element at the D2 position) and the original MonstIR
> (42 ft boom, all straight elements). Those are not yet mentioned on the web
> page. If anyone would like either of those models contact me directly.
>
> Dan, AC6LA
> http://ac6la.com
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2017 11:42:54 +0000
> From: M?ximo EA1DDO_HK1H <ea1ddo@hotmail.com>
> To: "towertalk@contesting.com" <towertalk@contesting.com>
> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] VNA
> Message-ID:
> <AM5P195MB0097A45811707A22D6EA64CF955E0@AM5P195MB0097.EURP195.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Hi Neal,
>
>
> If you would like to use the VNA "on the field", you can consider consider
> the KC901S+:
>
>
> http://www.deepace.net/kc901s/
>
>
> It is a two ports VNA, high dynamic range, up to 4 GHz, and it is portable,
> to use it at the antenna location, with no PC needed.
>
> As extra you get Spectrum analyser, RF and AF generator, Distance to fault,
> etc.
>
>
> 73, Maximo / EA1DDO
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> De: TowerTalk <towertalk-bounces@contesting.com> en nombre de Neal Sulmeyer
> <Neal@k4ea.net>
> Enviado: martes, 31 de octubre de 2017 0:29
> Para: towertalk@contesting.com
> Asunto: [TowerTalk] VNA
>
> My MFJ 259B is 25 years old and obsolete. Time for an upgrade. I'm
> considering the AIM 4300 (updgrade to the AIM4170 recommended by ON4UN).
>
> I would like to hear some opinions on this device and others from my fellow
> TowerTalkers.
>
> Neal, K4EA
> _______________________________________________
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TowerTalk mailing list
> TowerTalk@contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
> TowerTalk Info Page -
> Contesting<http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk>
> lists.contesting.com
> TowerTalk is for discussion of tower and HF antenna construction topics. TT
> members have lots of helpful information and are happy to share it.
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
> _______________________________________________
> TowerTalk mailing list
> TowerTalk@contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of TowerTalk Digest, Vol 178, Issue 111
> *******************************************
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