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[TowerTalk] 80 Meter yagi question

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Subject: [TowerTalk] 80 Meter yagi question
From: "Jim Thomson" <jim.thom@telus.net>
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2017 15:17:01 -0700
List-post: <mailto:towertalk@contesting.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2017 17:10:04 -0700
From: "Richard (Rick) Karlquist" <richard@karlquist.com>
To: Jim Thomson <jim.thom@telus.net>, towertalk@contesting.com
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] 80 Meter yagi question



On 10/11/2017 10:11 AM, Jim Thomson wrote:

> ##  Aluminum only  conducts  60% as good as copper.  .25 inch OD copper  =  
> .417 inch OD  aluminum.

> Jim   VE7RF
> 

<That is only true at frequencies below which skin effect is
<significant.  For RF frequencies, you need to take the
<square root of 60% which comes out to 77%.
<1/4 inch copper = 5/16 inch aluminum.

<Rick N6RK


###  I checked my notes on this.....plus yours you posted. on that url.    Here 
is where I think the issue is.
-AL only conducts  60% as good as Cu...at any freq.
-14 gauge solid Cu   =  12 gauge Al.   (standard for house wiring etc, 60 hz or 
dc)
- 14 gauge =  .0641  diameter
- 12 gauge =  .0808  diameter 

-  .0808  / .0641  =   1.26     Increase the  diam by 1.26  and now the cross 
sectional surface area has increased  by....  1.26  X  1.26 =  1.59  or almost 
60%. 

-  Go to page  132 of ur url....under skin effect. 
http://www.americanradiohistory.com/Archive-Handbooks-Miscellaneous/Federal-Reference-Data-Radio-Engineers-4th-1956.pdf
By comparison, a thick aluminum sheet has a  resistance  1.28 times that of 
copper. 

- notice the correlation between their  1.28   and the  1.26  from the 14 / 12 
gauge house wiring example.   But in both cases, solid material is used. 

- Cuz of  skin effect at HF  +  VHF....  Copper or aluminum tubing will 
suffice.   Typ copper tubing is aprx .035 thick. 
Look in at the END of a piece of thin walled cu tubing.....and  you will notice 
that the total surface area of the
end of tubing is miniscule at best.   We still have to increase the  miniscule 
surface area of the EDGE of the 
tubing.... if  aluminum tubing is instead used.   And to increase the surface 
edge area by 60%..we now have to
increase the diam by 60%.     If the   skin depth is only say  .05  and the Al 
/cu tubing is  .035 thick, the excess is wasted,and IMO, does not count 
as...useable surface area. 
So you still gotta increase the diam of any AL tubing by 60%.   A 60% increase 
in diam will  obviously result in a 60%  increase in circumference.  

##  .25 OD copper  x  1.6  =  .4 OD AL.
.375 OD  Cu   x 1.6  = .6 OD AL. 
.25 OD AL  =  .156 CU   =   5/32 inch Cu.     Now you can see why   .25 AL 
tubing  will run  blazing hot when used in an amp that previously used .25 Cu 
tubing.   .375 OD  AL tubing would be required for the job.   Al cant be 
soldered, if soldering is required.   Tubing is usually flattened at both 
ends..and a hole punched  through, then machine screws, etc used. 

##  per W8JI and his eng buddies,   RF  only flows on the outside of tubing, 
and not the inside.   That  has to be factored in.  Paragraph 1 on page  128 of 
your  above url alludes to that.  
Strap, on the other hand, conducts RF on both sides.  Strap is mentioned in VO 
Stokes book....   Radio Transmitters + power amplifiers, published in the UK.   
Strap  has to be the same total circumference as the tubing ..to
handle the same RF current.    .25 OD cu tubing is .785 inch in circumference.  
If  cu strap used, and is .035 thick,  it only has to be .3575 wide.   IE:  .25 
cu  tubing  =   .3575 cu strap.   Strap has some other advantages, like if flat 
wound strap coils are employed. There is no C between turns of strap coils, 
hence adjacent turns can be very close together.. but strap coils are typ used 
on   12-10-6m amp  tank coils.  But Im  slightly  OT here. 

##  The software from k6sti and others   depicts the same  60% required 
increase in OD, when  swapping from AL to  CU.  

Jim   VE7RF



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