Jim,
Since EZNEC modeled currents are based upon all induced currents from other
elements, the estimate should be at least as useful as previous replies of
“high” or “so high you don’t want to know”. The poster was asking for a “rough
estimate”.
The zero current sources were inserted 2% from the end, as stated. If I
increase the segments per element from 25 to 75, decreasing the segment length
to 0.91’ I can get the source inserted at 0.66% Actual Position, or about 5.4”
from the end. Since the average current on the segment is less now, the
voltage (across the source object) for the DE drops to 1395 vRMS. The
reflector drops to 1540. So segment length significantly affects the
“measured” voltage.
I have never compared EZNEC voltages to actual measurements, but obviously
measuring an RF voltage on the end of a element tip accurately is not easy. In
the original poster’s application, it is only the voltage across the relay
contacts’ gap that matters, not referenced to ground. That is what the EZNEC
zero ampere current source claims to measure.
Steve, W3AHL
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2016 11:53:31 -0700
From: jimlux <jimlux@earthlink.net>
To: towertalk@contesting.com
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Voltage at ends of yogi parasitic elements?
On 10/17/16 11:11 AM, Steve, W3AHL wrote:
> Rob,
>
> As an upper limit, the voltage on the ends of the DE should be about
> 3700 volts RMS or 5200 volts peak. This is based upon a 40M wire
> Yagi EZNEC model with a source power of 1500 watts, feed point
> voltage of 271.7 volts and current of 5.54 amps. Assuming the power
> remains constant
That is not a valid assumption - each piece of the antenna both radiates
and absorbs energy from every other piece (that's what the whole method
of moments is based on). You can also have a lot of "reactive" power
circulating - antennas are resonant, so, in general Vrms*Irms is not
constant everywhere (any more than it is in a lumped LC)
The other thing is that voltage isn't well defined in an antenna - at
least in a way that can be measured, you wind up with a "voltage
compared to what? the ground that's infinitely far away? some other
part of the antenna? etc". What you CAN do in NEC (and other modeling
codes) is look at the electric field, and that will tell you if
breakdown is likely.
You can also (with some tricks) calculate the voltage drop along each
segment of the antenna, then sum them all. You have to sum allowing for
the phase of the voltage, too. (put a wire with a large resistor load
in parallel with each segment, using an NT card, then look at the
currents in those wires... you can also do the same thing, sort of, to
connect a "non radiating" wire from a node to the center of the element,
but I'm not sure it actually works right)
along the length of the element the end segment of
> the model shows a current of 0.41 amps, which would require 3658
> volts RMS for 1500 watts. That is the average current along the
> entire length of that end segment in the model, so it doesn?t
> represent the worst case at the very end, but it is close enough for
> your purposes. Round up...!
>
> In the ARRL Antenna Book, 22nd edition, page 3-14, figure 3.28, there
> is a graph showing the voltage on the ends of elevated radials of a
> vertical. For 4 radial configuration the voltage is 1800 volts RMS
> at the ends. For 12 radials the voltage is only 600 volts, since the
> power radiated by each wire is less. Extrapolating for a single
> radial yields 5400 volts RMS.
Actually, this is not a valid calculation.. Consider a tesla coil - the
toroidal electrode on the top is like your ground radials - the voltage
everywhere is about the same.
For the radial case, the current is evenly divided among the radials,
but the voltage remains the same on all radial. (so the "power" entering
each radial is 1/N times the total power)
I only have rev 20 of the antenna book, so I can't look up the figure
you're referring to.
>
> For the parasitic elements of the 40M Yagi the center segment?s
> current is only 2.55 amps, with 0.185 amps at the ends. If I insert
> a zero current current source (acts as a voltmeter in EZNEC) near the
> end (2% from end) of the reflector element, it shows the voltage 2140
> vRMS or 3026 vPeak. Doing the same for the DE yields 4058 vRMS or
> 5038 vPeak. Same caveat applies as given in the first paragraph.
> Inserting the sources as voltmeters slightly changes the antenna
> behavior, as would using a voltmeter to actually measure it.
Is that inserted in the end segment, or between the end segment and the
center?
A 1:2 ratio between parasitic and driven is about what I would expect
for most 3 element designs..
_______________________________________________
_______________________________________________
TowerTalk mailing list
TowerTalk@contesting.com
http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
|