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Re: [TowerTalk] AES SK

To: towertalk@contesting.com
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] AES SK
From: Jim Brown <jim@audiosystemsgroup.com>
Reply-to: jim@audiosystemsgroup.com
Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2016 16:22:40 -0700
List-post: <towertalk@contesting.com">mailto:towertalk@contesting.com>
It's good that you raised this, Jim. Fair-Rite is yet another example of a great small business that was owned and run by engineers who happened to be married. He was the Chem E, she was the EE. I met them in their booth at an IEEE EMC engineering conference in Chicago in 2005. Not long after that they sold the business and retired. That's probably when mfg moved off shore. Several years ago, I heard from a local EE working mfg that his company was having serious QC issues with their #61 cores of the same sort you described.

My measurements of coax chokes were mostly done in 2007, the bifilar chokes in 2009-10. Measurements that produced the families of data for 1-14 turns of the five different materials were done in a well known lab in 2002-3 by my collaborator who has chosen to remain anonymous to avoid "issues" at work.

I would NOT, however, solely blame QC for the problem with getting consistent measurements on chokes, simply because the circuit Q of practical chokes is quite low, typically around 0.5. Rather, I think much of it is a measurement problem. It is VERY well known that reflection-based impedance measurements have increasingly poor accuracy for values of Z that vary by more than about 5:1 from the system impedance of the measurement system (usually 50 ohms). This is because the equation for Z involves the sum and difference of S11 and 1, so very small errors in S11 result in large errors in Z.

This error is in addition to the stray C of the measurement fixture, which can cause significant errors in the resonance of the choke. This is significant with #31 and #43 chokes that are resonant above about 10 MHz, and huge errors in higher Q materials like #61. In both cases, the actual resonance of the choke is higher than the measured value.

73, Jim K9YC

On Fri,7/8/2016 3:12 PM, Jim Thomson wrote:
Well  you could work for Fair rite as a type 31 sales manager.  Or better yet,
visit their new plant in China, where they make all these products, and figure 
out
why they have such extremes and variations in their  type 31 cores  since the 
chinese
plant opened.   N3RR  bought over  700 of em, 2.4  inch od cores, and found they
are all over the map, and even sent samples to Fair rite.   Bill ended up 
devising  a
simple 1 turn test, then graded all  700 of em into various sub groups.   No 
wonder the
initial CMC results  were not repeatable.


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