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Re: [TowerTalk] another subject: coax and cables buried or elevated abov

To: towertalk@contesting.com
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] another subject: coax and cables buried or elevated above ground?
From: "Roger (K8RI) on TT" <K8RI-on-TowerTalk@tm.net>
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2016 16:13:08 -0500
List-post: <towertalk@contesting.com">mailto:towertalk@contesting.com>
Take those articles with a grain (or two) of salt. I see many of them as a good guide for those who understand the circuit, how it works, and what it's supposed to do. Over the years, I've found many errors in construction articles.

Wires may not be rated for immersion, but coax, rotator control cables and cables to remote antenna switches are hanging out in the elements. Rain, Ice, snow, extreme heat and cold temps don't hurt them. Ever look at a piece of CAT5 that's been on the tower for a while? Even in the Northern climates, after a few years, the jacket becomes so hard and brittle you can crush it just by squeezing it in your hand unless it was specifically rated for exterior use. Now there is some cheap cable! OTOH, I've had some rotator control cable do the same thing, but the wires inside remained fine. It was purchased so long ago, I have no idea as to its origin, other than it didn't come from a swap.

One time, one of the local hams picked up a lot of very flexible RG-8 size coax. (source?) The jacket was a gray, smooth, almost slippery, soft plastic. It was almost as flexible as 8X, but after a few years in Michigan's sun (43deg 37min N) it looked like it had a bad skin disease and was covered with dark scabs. The chemical smell was very strong (plasticizer?) I still have a few short pieces that were used indoors and they appear to be fine, but they do have an odor, although faint.

Yes, with the pressure changes, mainly due to temperature changes, there can be substantial condensation due to "breathing" (voice of experience), but WHY CARE? What condenses, will eventually evaporate. Sealing conduit is likely to cause ingestion of moisture unless all joints are 100% sealed. I leave both ends open, yet after nearly 15 years, moisture has never been a problem. I used to drill little drain holes at low spots, but I no longer do that. It seems to me to be a waste of time. Besides, In the spring, around here a conduit a foot down is likely below the water table. Sump pumps get a real workout in the spring!

What difference would it make if the conduit were full of water as long as there are no connectors, or splices in there and the coax is a trusted brand?

73

Roger  (K8RI)


On 1/28/2016 Thursday 9:17 AM, Al Kozakiewicz wrote:
QST is not peer reviewed.  All kinds of nonsense can make its way into print.

The notion of copious condensation in buried conduit has always seemed like ham 
urban legend to me.

First off, there are literally millions of miles of buried electrical conduit 
in the world filled with wire not rated for immersion. The failure rate for 
this infrastructure does not seem to be anything exceptional.

More important, condensation requires a constant supply of moist air. Where is 
this supply coming from? Not convection, unless someone changed the laws of 
physics while I wasn't looking. If there really is enough air flow from the 
pressure difference between the ends of the conduit sufficient to bring in the 
required moisture (unlikely), then seal the ends. Simple.

Al
AB2ZY

________________________________________
From: TowerTalk <towertalk-bounces@contesting.com> on behalf of StellarCAT 
<rxdesign@ssvecnet.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2016 8:22 AM
To: tower
Subject: [TowerTalk] another subject: coax and cables buried or elevated        
above ground?

My ongoing tower/antenna projects... hopefully I’m not boring others out 
there...

I had planned on burying all lines to the towers (2, one at 150’ out and one at 300’ out) ... at first I 
thought in solid joined (sealed) PVC which I can get for $9/10’ ... and I’ve also thought about direct 
burial which for the coax and control cables has the added benefit of increased capacitance to ground and thus a 
reduction of energy (lightening event) that reaches the shack... but control cables aren’t normally rated for 
direct burial... or at least I don’t think so (researching that now)...

Then this latest QST article on coax says DON’T bury in any type of conduit be 
it plastic or otherwise. It says condensation WILL get inside and ruin (flood) the 
cables.

So .... if the cables are underground – below the frost line – say minimum 1’ down (upstate SC) ... how will condensation develop? Or 
will it? I’m an engineer (HW/SW development) and reasonably intelligent but find it difficult to wrap my head around this issue... will it or 
won’t it – flood that is? if it were always under ground – including both ends then I’d think not.... but it isn’t always 
under as the ends come up to and above the surface... does that introduce a temperature variant enough to induce condensation? And I don’t like the 
idea of holes in the plastic – that just means mud will indeed eventually work its way inside.

Maybe use corrugated tubing (again – no cuts or openings) ... this would allow 
whatever moisture there might be, and I can’t imagine its going to be a great deal, to 
settle in the lower points of the corrugation.

Comments from others that have been through this - in the south with similar 
conditions would be appreciated.

Alternatively I could use a leader line and go from say 15’ on the first tower to the second tower and then that 
same level to the shack with supporting 4x4 poles along the way... but this seems iffy as well as first the cables are 
‘leaving’ the tower above ground potential so that might mean a higher voltage (common mode – 
probably?) on the lines (again: lightening type event)... and the first tower is a rotating tower ... although thinking 
about it that might work quite well to go from the tower with a ‘swing-arm’ of hanging coax/cables to allow 
rotation.

thoughts?

Gary
K9RX
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--

73

Roger (K8RI)


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