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Re: [TowerTalk] Used Harnesses

To: towertalk@contesting.com
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Used Harnesses
From: "Roger (K8RI) on TT" <K8RI-on-TowerTalk@tm.net>
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2015 00:28:52 -0500
List-post: <towertalk@contesting.com">mailto:towertalk@contesting.com>
My comments and opinions only!

First comment: No, mine is not for sale! Wayyy too much liability and I do have a conscience.

Second comment: I can certainly understand the desire and need for an inexpensive climbing harness. In many countries with import duties and VAT they can cost double, or more, than here in the states. Better hope we don't lose the dollar as the international standard!

I have a very good harness. It's the kind with padded straps you can sit in, complete with fall arrest gear, fairly expensive, BUT, way out of certification. It looks like new and were I still climbing, I'd not hesitate to use it.

OTOH: Even if a person is willing to sell a used harness in good shape, In many, if not most cases it is difficult, if not impossible for the purchaser to sign his, or her rights away and they can not sign their heirs rights away. So, unless the present owner is worth little financially there is the potential to lose everything you have. I have never heard of it happening, but I'd not risk it in today's sue-happy society.

For the purchaser, insurance might be an issue. I don't know what it's like in other countries, but here in the US, getting hurt with used, out-of-certification safety gear might invalidate your insurance.

It's a catch 22. People who need good safety gear, but find it's either unavailable, or out of their ability to pay range, have few choices, all of which could have undesirable consequences. The best solution where new is either unavailable, or unaffordable is to get a used harness in good shape, if one can be found and IF the risks are understood. Which is worse? Going with out, or going with used and inspected equipment? Saying we'd never purchase used safety equipment may not be an option for some (or many).

Used and out-of-certification is very risky from both a safety and insurance standpoint. These harnesses are made of synthetic materials which As Far As I Know (AFAIK) slowly loses strength. IOW, It can still look like new yet be a fragile safety hazard. With some limitations, "I believe" some equipment can be inspected and re-certified. (Unlikely to be inexpensive) Then, there is how insurance companies look at the use of used and out-of-certification equipment. The injury may not have been caused by the equipment. It may have even been limited by the equipment, but they point out the person was willing to risk their life on old, used equipment. 45 years ago, they weren't looking for excuses to get out of paying.

I have am old, padded, free floating, leather plus mono-filament Klien safety belt with pole strap, from when they were considered the ultimate in safety equipment which would make it over 45 years old. A time when you could loan safety equipment after making sure the recipient knew how to use it. I'd still trust it, but now we know the harness is much safer and more desirable even if that belt will (has) out last(ed) 3 synthetic harnesses.

At present I can say that I would never, ever, buy, or use one of the used nylon safety belts that often show up at swaps. When I was a tech, the company would destroy all Nylon safety belts and harnesses, then replace them with new, every year! Yes, the belts were required in many operations (saw a lot of use) in a hostile environment (Semiconductor chemical plant). Beyond horrendous liability, they had OSHA and MIOSHA to contend with. (huge fines for non compliance)

I have well over $500 (probably > $1000) in safety equipment that I can no longer use. It will be destroyed when I check out even if it would be safe to use. Seems like a real waste, if it could be certified. We talk down to the use of climbing belts, but they were considered necessary for years. What's better? An old Nylon harness, or a good climbing belt? It's easy to make decisions when it's readily available and the cost of safety gear is close to reasonable / affordable. Not so easy when the choices are poor and none.

BTW I do know of one serious injury that was likely caused by using good safety equipment. He was dismantling a tower. 25G I think. With 30 feet left, it broke over at the base. (no temp, or inadequate guys) He couldn't get free from the tower before it hit the ground. Could he have gotten free and avoided major injuries that will plague him the rest of his life? It's any one's guess. I've fallen that far, once with only a broken arm. Once with no serious injuries, or even bruises, just knocked the wind out of me. OTOH it sure was difficult to breathe for a while. At first I couldn't breathe at all. About the time I was on my way out, a small breath came in. I woke, breathing fine. My chest ached for 10 or 15 minutes and that was it. No, it was not off a tower.

73

Roger  (K8RI)



On 11/20/2015 12:49 PM, Joe K2UF wrote:
  My two cents.....  I would never buy any used climbing equipment.

73  Joe K2UF

-----Original Message-----
From: TowerTalk [mailto:towertalk-bounces@contesting.com] On Behalf Of
Wilson
Sent: Friday, November 20, 2015 12:13 PM
To: towertalk@contesting.com
Subject: [TowerTalk] Used Harnesses



"Used, cheap, save my life, in the same sentence?"

Can anyone find reports of harnesses that failed, new or used?
For that matter, I'd like to see reports of harness that actually caught
people who fell.
Does anyone know of bad or unreliable NEW harnesses?
WL


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End of TowerTalk Digest, Vol 155, Issue 41
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73

Roger (K8RI)


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