Aww, cummon Chris, where is the fun in that? It is way too fast, easy,
cheap, and elegantly simple. Please, let's get back to arguing about
the number of angels dancing on the head of a pin. ;) ;) What to do
with all the left over counterproductive righteous indignation?
Patrick NJ5G
On 9/8/2015 11:14 AM, Chris wrote:
I don't think anyone has mentioned this possibility: Fill in the existing hole
with weld and start over.
Chris
KF7P
On Sep 8, 2015, at 10:07 AM, Grant Saviers wrote:
Roger makes a number of good points. I would add a couple.
Annular cutters are basically end mills, so if you have a rigid enough setup,
one might be carefully be used to off-center enlarge a hole. A Mag-Drill is
designed for such cutters to drill into heavy plate but they and cutters are
not cheap. The advantage is only a ring of steel is being removed, not the
entire hole as with a twist drill. That reduces the thrust force needed to a
level that can be handled by the electro-magnet that holds the drill to the
plate. Plenty of cutting coolant is needed.
A "hole saw" would be useless in 3/4" thick steel plate and without a pilot
drill center just wouldn't work no matter how rigid the setup. Don't ask how I've broken off
a saw hub. Metal fatigue won.
I know it is appealing to use an end mill of the hole diameter to move the center, but
for moving a 1.5" hole 0.25", that is an expensive end mill ($150). So for
this job I would use a boring head and carbide tipped bar ($15). it will take a bit
longer, but much less downside in tooling costs and usually in most hobby machinist tool
boxes. That is also a much too large an end mill for a Bridgeport cutting steel.
One other way to enlarge a hole is a "core drill" which is specifically designed for that purpose. However, they
won't move a hole off its nominal center. Usually, they only cut on the outer one half to one third of the radius of the
drill. With a tapered lead, they center on the existing hole and enlarge it to the drill size. If used in a mill or lathe,
near reamer tolerances and finish are possible. It is practical to use one up to about 5/8" dia in a hand drill. I
think the source of the name "core" comes from the need to drill "cored" holes in castings to the
desired size. They are particularly useful in a lathe to quickly increase an inside diameter rather than multiple boring
bar passes, e.g 1" to 2" in one pass, but that takes all of the 10 horsepower in my big lathe. Impressive (and
dangerous) swarf 'though.
There are core drill sets that are pretty useful to 3/4", particularly for
pilot holes for a large chassis punch and larger holes in thicker steel.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NORSEMAN-MAGNUM-SP-8HH-HOLE-HOG-REAMER-DRILL-BIT-4-FLUTE-SET-3-8-3-4-USA-/301607300147?hash=item4639322c33
As Roger points out many "hand held" drills have the torque to hurt. A friend
broke his wrist recently with one that grabbed.
Grant KZ1W
On 9/8/2015 3:03 AM, Roger (K8RI) on TT wrote:
Using the original plate as a guide in a drill press, or a hand held with a
magnetic base is a good approach. I don't know if the off center cutting will
force the side of the bit to cut into the guide, Use good, substantial,
C-Clamps to hold the plate and guide securely to the press base plate, guide.
Don't use small clamps.
The best, safest, and quickest is still a machine shop, or someone with a mill
that knows how to use it.
A high speed grinder with "good bits is slow and tedious work, There is also a
learning curve. I know it's tempting and I'm the type who wants to do it himself,
but...
I know I'm covering a little more than the original post asked, but I think
it's appropriate.
Large drill bits used off center with out a good, solid guide tend to grab and once
they grab, they tend to bounce around the hole, grabbing as they go with each grab
becoming more dangerous. They are likely to become a real arm, or leg breaker if
you use your leg as a brace because each grab is an impact rather a ramped up
resistance easily surpassing several hundred pounds of force.(It's like dropping a
200 or 300 rock on your leg, arm, or hand). IOW, The drill bit can become very
dangerous. Those who are not familiar with what can and likely will happen, believe
they can hold it. I've had a drill grab while enlarging the hole on center.
Thankfully it burned up the motor on the largest Dewalt 1/2" drill motor Lowe's
sells before it did anything serious to me. I thought I could hold one until then.
Example: I know an electrician who had the cord get wrapped around his hand.
When the drill grabbed, it pulled his thumb out, separating the thumb from his
hand completely. He had to climb down 3 stories on steel ladders after the
incident.
I can't emphasize how dangerous Redrilling a large bolt hole, "off center" can be.
There are only two safe ways to do it. One is with a milling machine, or a cutting torch
(Plasma, or Ox-Acetylene). There is a third way using a heavy duty, high speed grinder using a
carbide bit or a heavy duty abrasive grinding bit and not the cheap ones. Colors indicate
hardness. Pink is soft and for finishing. Dark gray is for harder metals and better for
hogging out steel metal plates , like 3/4" metal plates. I use carbide bits and abrasive
grinding bits rated for 40,000 RPM. 40,000 is not a misprint. Typical big box and hardware
store bits are rated at 5,000 RPM and are very likely to explode in a real high speed grinder
or die grinder.
Always wear a full face shield and safety glasses with side shields with this
kind of equipment.. Safety goggles, or safety glasses with side shields by
themselves are not considered sufficient. As I have to rely on experienced
volunteers, I'm sometimes reluctant to insist on the full face shield
The strong magnetic brace becomes a necessity, but are not guaranteed to hold a bit
that has grabbed when "trying to drill off center.. OTOH they GENERALLY do
tend to only kick to the center of the hole and allow you to let go of the trigger.
As I've said before, it can be almost impossible to let go of the trigger on a hand
held drill motor that is grabbing, or has grabbed. They are dangerous on a drill
press, and far worse on a portable setup.
By the far the safest and bet is an end mill of the proper size. Unfortunately,
I've never seen one with a smaller shank to fit a drill motor or drill press.
The end mill, fed slowly, with a water based lube spray is almost a necessity
and they give a very clean hole of the proper size. Never, ever try to use
one, hand held. They are expensive and need a rigid hold as with a milling
machine. The shank, or quill on even an expensive drill press is just too
flexible. There is a reason the larger end mills are gripped with a collet of
the same size.
If you can find some one ( or a shop you trust) with a milling machine that will tackle the job,
it's a very simple setup and easy to do. It's helpful to have the plate setup of the proper
orientation, but as you are using the mill as a drill press, with the plate "tightly
clamped", it's not necessary. However many shops do not like to do this kind of work. Never
suggest "only a drill bit will do the work!". It tells them you do not know the dangers
you are suggesting or want them to do something dangerous. Depend on them for the proper equipment
to use. The drill bit usually won't and is usually very dangerous to boot. A complete set of
2-flute and 4-flute end mills, plus ball end mills males a set or top quality drill bits look
cheap! Add to the the need for a required set of collets
I have a old, big Bridgeport Mill. The head needs to be rebuilt as the key has
been sheared, probably from just such an operation and why It was so cheap. A
mill with a keyless chuck is the best drill press you can find. A ball end
mill makes a very good, but expensive drill bit.
BTW You can purchase a gallon jug of lubricant to mix with water from most any
industrial supply house and use it in a little hand held spray bottle. There
are also spray bottles fat last a long time and many small jobs.
http://www.grizzly.com/products/Accu-Lube-Pump-Spray-Lubricant/H9239
I'm just a customer, have no interest in the company.
Proper lubricants will make the use easier, while bits, taps, and saw blades
last much longer.
73
Roger (K8RI)
On 9/7/2015 2:33 PM, Rich Hallman - N7TR wrote:
I had a ¾ inch steel plate made up that will be used to retrofit a HDX589 base
foundation to a HDX572 base. After giving both bases to the machine shop and asking
them to make sure all of the holes are exactly the same location as the base, some of the
holes are 1/8 to ¼ inch off. I had a major issue with this machine shop so I will
not take it back for now.
I wanted to see what others have done to grind out holes in thick steel plate.
I was looking at the Carbide Burr bits and getting a ¾ inch burr bit to see if
that would grid enough from the hole so it would then fit the bases.
The holes are pretty close....so I thought grinding them out would be the best
solution for now.
Any thoughts?
Thanks....Rich
Rich N7TR
ex KI3V, N3AMK, WB3JOV
www.n7tr.com<http://www.n7tr.com>
http://www.qrz.com/db/N7TR
Telnet: dxc.n7tr.com N7TR DXCluster
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